Arsenal Banter Archive December 12 2015

 

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12 Dec 2015 17:52:05
If anyone needs cheering up about our lack of strength in depth then go take a look at united's starting 11 today, made me laugh!

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12 Dec 2015 19:24:15
I hope fergie can sleep at night later its all his fault lol.

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{Ed001's Note - LvG is a genius, imagine getting paid so well to destroy club after club. It takes genius to do that.}

12 Dec 2015 19:35:42
The way he's slated a few ex legends is criminal. Paul scholes is correct in what he's said.

Alot of ex Bayern and Barcelona players slated him too didn't.

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{Ed001's Note - ask Ronald Koeman about him. Hates him.}

12 Dec 2015 19:59:38
Oh ye I remember that being mentioned last year. As I saw down the page you about players you rate etc. Thoughts on cabaye.

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{Ed001's Note - he is ok, but the team he is at is his right level. He would be a downgrade on Cazorla, because that is how he plays. Good passing range, but a tendency to pick up cheap bookings and is quick to lose heart when things are not going well. For Palace he is a star, for Arsenal he would be, at best, on the fringes.}

12 Dec 2015 20:06:42
LVG is the most popular manager in United's history of the whole country loves what he's doing there, except the utd fans that is :-)
Give the bloke a 20 year contract and an MBE for services to the nation.

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12 Dec 2015 20:15:49
I think he's better than palace but he's been an epic signing for them. I remember wenger trying to buy him and I thought he may pick him up from PSG but France manager has told his squad they all need to be playing. Is he better than Joe Allen? Lol.

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{Ed001's Note - much better than Allen, but Allen is nowhere near good enough.}

12 Dec 2015 22:25:20
He has more interceptions and tackles than most. great delievery on set pieces. for 10m a steal. some player to have ahead of arteta and flamini.

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13 Dec 2015 01:08:42
I'm sure he sleeps very well at night derby. His ego would never let him question that maybe he had some part to play in United's current plight.

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13 Dec 2015 01:07:10
Was on about cabaye. not Joe allen😂.

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{Ed001's Note - are you sure? Oh wait, you must be because you said more not less.}

13 Dec 2015 10:17:43
Remember when Joe Allen has a pass success rate to rival xavi them people realised its because he's trying to play rugby. Pass backwards.

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12 Dec 2015 13:48:31
Being an Arsenal supporter over the past decade is like being the over-optimistic parents of the fat kid on sports day

Well hopefully our boy is in great shape this year and ready to show everyone how great he is!

Come on you Gunners - it's there for the taking, let's not bottle it and let's strengthen in Jan!

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12 Dec 2015 09:26:03
Hopefully we get some great results in December and get Sanchez back to help beat City before Wenger opens the cheque book to takes us over the finishing line in first spot.
I have it most faith in Wenger to make the right or best decision for us - signing or loan - in Jamuary to give us the best chance of winning the EPL plus lots of confidence in the squad. The starting 11 ( all fit ) is awesome and we just need to add a few players to cover injuries with the right level of skill and experience.
Cech, Ozil and Sanchez show the different they make and that we do spend. It's clear Wenger loves them and sees the value in them BUT he wants to add quality not quantity - I totally agree with him.
Let's stuff Villa and fingers crossed for the rest of the season and Jan window.

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12 Dec 2015 12:45:07
Well when he gives rosicky and arteta new deals. For me that's keeping quantity not quailty. Bad calls there for me.

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12 Dec 2015 13:38:26
Derby, you can't have 25 world class players in the squad. You have to have players happy to play minimal games. Looking over the past 3 years - Rosicky has done a great job when called upon. Also, below some seem to be happy to replace these with sub standard players - they are guilty of the same crime. Surely, Wenger's plan to replace them with quality makes far more sense.

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12 Dec 2015 14:55:20
Rosicky has been here a decade on 70k a week? Check the amount of games he's played. Great great player but Is injury history is criminal

Not asking for 25 world class players but look at Bayern's squad. Real Madrid's. Barca's. And you see what I mean.

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12 Dec 2015 15:18:35
Name the players outside of the starting 11 for each of those clubs Derby.

Who fills in for Muller, Thiago and Lewandowski, who fills in for Neymar, Saurez and Messi who fills in for Benzema, Bale and Ronaldo.

You're unrealistic in what you hope for mate.

Even the biggest clubs have a core of 15 or so players and beyond that the quality isn't that of an abundance of Worldies.

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12 Dec 2015 15:33:52
SY I fail to see how Victor Wanyama or James McCarthy are a substandard replacement for Arteta who was never a DM in the first place and is now a non DM in increasingly rapid decline.
If you can't afford a pair of £200 shoes do you continue to wear the ones where your toes poke out the frtont and bottoms flap like flabanski or setle for a new £40 pair?

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12 Dec 2015 15:52:29
I don't go out buying stuff I need if I can get it bought for me for Christmas. I would rather make do for the short term and get an extra nice pair of shoes for Christmas. Pointless having a nice pair and a really really nice pair especially if I have plenty of shoes already.
Not sure our toes are poking out - we are second in the league :)

When city have ya ya or silva or Aguero or Kompany - are they short? YES.

If Keane was missing from Utd or Rio. Were they short - yes

When Hazzard or Terry or Costa is out - are Chelsea short? YES

IF Liverpool is missing. Ok for get them :)

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{Ed001's Note - I don't get this argument, it is idiotic. It doesn't matter about the other teams, if they are weak it should be a reason to strengthen. That is why you are all so happy with the 4th place trophy, you settle for second best.}

12 Dec 2015 16:02:58
As opposed to signing Wanayama who would make us the best?

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12 Dec 2015 16:06:42
Ok red dog. Bayern have ribery. Robben. Muller. Gotze. Coman. green. Vidal. Alonso. Thiago. Martinez. Lewandowski. Muller. Costa. Hojdberg onloan whos going to be a very good player.

Madrid. Benzema. Ronaldo. James. Isco. Bale. Kroos. Modric. Casmero. Jese. Kovacic. And there player they played in the cup illegally. Plus Lucas Silva to come back.

Do I need to name more.

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12 Dec 2015 16:07:28
To me its quite simple you take the best you can actually get, if you can get very top class you should grab it with both hands but if the best ain't available you shouldn't go without completely or try and make do with what's no longer serviceable.

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12 Dec 2015 16:36:02
Ed, there are plenty of us who aren't happy with the 4th place trophy that's why we get so frustrated every year.

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{Ed001's Note - which is perfectly understandable, but those are the ones complaining about the club not investing in the squad.}

12 Dec 2015 16:45:35
Nice one Derby you've managed to name most of their first team players, jeezus I'm talking about their back ups. You really are on another planet mate. :- (

Don't bother trying again mate it's just a waste. Thanks anyway.

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{Ed001's Note - are you really that dense? It has to be a wind up right?}

12 Dec 2015 17:16:44
Sheesh sorry ed I didn't realise Bale, Ronaldo and Benzema were back ups for Bale, Ronaldo and Benzema along with Muller, Thiago and Lewandowski being back ups for those very same players.

How dense is it possible for me to be.

I guess at least at Arsenal we have Sanchez, Ozil and Ramsey to fill in for Sanchez, Ozil and Ramsey when they're out.

Like I said, waste of time you're right Bayern have 25 Worldies in their squad as do Barcelona and Madrid.

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{Ed001's Note - are you unable to read? He listed players such as Ribery, Coman, Costa, who rotate along with Muller etc. You are just being an arse now, with this moronic and pointless comment that just shows your inability to read. If you want to argue a point, at least have the sense to understand when your point is crap, because yours is complete crap and just shows up a lack of any kind of knowledge of European football.}

12 Dec 2015 17:39:19
Ed the discussion is about the depth of a squad and who are the back ups to their first team players, so why list their first team players. I asked Derby to name them so we could all see exactly how many of their squad are World Class or the type Derby wants 300 of at Arsenal.

Each club has a nucleus within the 25 squad players and they rotate where they can as little as possible.

Clubs like Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern do this, they don't have endless world class players sitting on the bench albeit players will except bench time more at those clubs than they will at Arsenal.

Without injuries we wouldn't have Arteta, Flamini etc on our bench because some don't get game time and that is the same all over. I don't want them at the club but their is realism to who we get in this window, not just pluck names out of a hat that would supposedly be great at Arsenal such as Wanyama who you yourself have said isn't all that.

What is the difficult part of that.

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{Ed001's Note - but that is the depth of their squad, what is difficult to understand about that? When they have injuries, they had the likes of Coman playing. When Arsenal have injuries, they have to turn to Flamini and Arteta.

Now the discussion on Wanyama is completely separate, and I do agree with you that he would not be the answer as he is not good enough.}

12 Dec 2015 18:06:49
Ed perhaps I am not explaining my point, the OP spoke of the first 11 and back ups.

No club has a 2nd 11 as good as the first and most clubs have a group of subs as we do such as Gabriel, Debuchy, Wilshere, Welbeck, Chamberlain, Cazorla, Gibbs etc. depending on what's considered our 1st 11. (Injury free) .

Some are better than others but not many world class players sit on the bench unless you are Bayern, Barcelona or Madrid but they still won't have 5 or 6 of them.

I would say that most if not all clubs have 4 to 7 players they prefer to use in rotation. Of the two lists Derby gave at least 6 were 1st team players for their respective clubs.

I'd much rather we brought better players than our first team players so our bench became stronger as first teamers moved to the bench to then fill the void left by Arteta, Rosicky and Flamini in the squad overall.

I want us to be the best we can, I'm sick to death of the 4th place trophy tag, I want us to buy the best we can where as others are just happy to reel off names of players better than Flamini and Arteta and there must literally be thousands of them.

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{Ed001's Note - now that I would agree with you on, I have never seen the point in a club buying 'squad players' unless they already have the best 11 players in their positions in the world. Otherwise I am with you, buy to improve the team and the squad will get better as the replaced drop to the bench. Giroud would be great as a back up/rotation option, but as a first choice, well he is not really good enough for a team challenging for title. I don't understand the talk of Wanyama when the club has plenty of money to get someone like Carvalho.}

12 Dec 2015 18:20:41
That is who I want us to buy, Carvalho, we then have two excellent DM's and there would be no drop in quality where as with Wanyama for me there would be.

Add to that the fact ed02 has stated more than once that Carvalho is Wengers preferred option.

I want better back up for Sanchez a better option on the right wing and a better striker on top of that but I would be amazed if all that happened.

Oh and John Stones.

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{Ed001's Note - why Stones? I have this argument with Ed025 all the time, but he is obscenely overrated. His defensive positioning is awful. Great on the ball, quick and strong, but not good enough defensively. If he wasn't English he would be getting slaughtered in recent weeks for his part in Everton's capitulations.}

12 Dec 2015 18:50:57
Do you really think he's that bad ed, I don't know anyone who thinks he's bad, I watched him live a few weeks back and he looked quality but I'm no coach.

Who would you pick as a quality defender who'd be available?

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{Ed001's Note - I don't think he is that bad, just not that good. His pace and strength makes up partially for his poor positioning, as it did throughout Sol Campbell's career, and he is still young enough to improve massively. But it is potential not actual that people are rating him on and working with Bobby M he will not learn how to defend, as his clues about defending are none. When played with someone who can walk him through the game, such as Distin or Jagielka, he is fine, but he needs a brute alongside him, not a ball player like Koscielny.

For me Arsenal need a player with pace, for the way you play, someone like Musacchio. Or a proper old school hard man, like a, well I can't actually think of a hard man defender off the top of my head. Mind, if you got Carvalho, which you could as he wants to join and Wenger likes him, the need for brute strength at the back lessens. One of the Valencia centre backs would fit in, Mustafi. Laporte would be the best choice though, if possible.}

12 Dec 2015 18:56:23
Sorry I'm just not getting it,
Le Coq is out long term and our options are Flamini and Arteta to cover what has been our weakess position over the last 5 to 8 years.
Why if we can't better or equal Le Coq this window is it wrong to better Flamini and Artetta to give us the best possible chance of competing for the title this season?
I just don't get the do nothing if not everything attitude, what am I'm missing here.

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{Ed001's Note - because you should have the cover in the youth academy that can better Flamini and Arteta or there is no point in having one, if it can't produce better than them! Still could be worse, you could have Blind as the back up....}

12 Dec 2015 19:12:34
Thanks ed and I'm really hoping we get Carvalho, Laporte looks quality but it's getting in ahead of the big boys, much as I suspect we wouldn't get Stones either.

I'm not sure bar Chiellini there are that many hard man defenders out there.

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{Ed001's Note - Chiellini! I knew there was one out there, but yeah, not a likely signing I guess. Mind I like Gabriel myself, I think he will be good once he has grown into the league.}

12 Dec 2015 19:16:05
So Ed after all the above you agree with Dog and I

Add quality not quantity - we need a few quality signings that top Coq, Giroud and Per not make do and replace their 2nd choice replacements

The fact you struggles naming a CDM matches AW's challenge to actually buying one

We all want the same thing and I want Ozil, Cech, Sanchez type quality

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{Ed001's Note - I didn't struggle naming a CDM, that was a centre back I was struggling to name. Carvalho would be ideal and attainable in midfield.}

12 Dec 2015 19:18:47
True Ed so true:-)
To me this is where the lack of investment from first team to back up is coming back to to bite us.
Rosicky Arteta Flamini Diarby have taken up room time and money that should have been invested much more wisely to keep the conveyor belt of talent moving rather than stagnating, loyalty has a place but not at the expense of success.

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12 Dec 2015 19:46:31
Red dog no bench is as strong as the starting team that's why there on the bench. But I'd rather we have isco to bring on than Campbell. Or a Vidal to replace Ramsey etc over flamini. Or robben to come back in.

There starting 11 is better than ours so is there bench. That's the aim for us to get to

I want world class but with Wenger moaning about prices etc it's upto him what he wants.

The carvalho deal won't be easy. Mendes will rock up and dictate the deal rather than Wenger arguing over a pound.

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12 Dec 2015 20:19:07
Which is exactly what I said Derby, 2nd 11 is exactly that and like I said to ed, I would like to see better 1st teamers so our bench naturally becomes stronger.

I want us to buy the best but there has to be some realism to it, Wenger could have had Wanyama many times but he hasn't for a reason.

Players will move and I'm talking the best players on what you can offer them, rumours link many Madrid players with moves away in the window because they don't get enough game time.

I don't want to settle for a player that is simply better than Arteta I want better or as good as Coquelin.

Ed and g62 spoke of our youth coming through and we have just over hauled it which is why I think it will be a little longer before the likes of Sheaf, Bielek, Adelaide and Crowley get 1st team ready.

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12 Dec 2015 22:39:37
Adelaide I think can do a job now. Crowley started immense but I worry for his size and strength. Great in youth league in a no contact sport lol. Techinally immense.

We all know Wenger will see le loq as the answer and think OK let's get a back up. We had giroud he got welbeck.

He could of had Wanyama he could of had draxler. The bender brothers. Vertoghen. Alderweireld. We could of had loris years before we had cech. Cahill was on the cards years ago. Could of signed ronaldo and IBRA apparentl. Kompany could of been ours and yaya you're wanted to join us

I still think hel show respect to the guys here unless one is handed to us or comes available. Ozil Sanchez both told they can leave and cech wanted out.

Bayern went and improved there squad yet we are told there no players to improve our squad available. How does that work. It's impossible mate

Anyway let's get a win tomoz. Villa is a happy hunting ground and ozil favs pitch. Let's romp em.

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