Arsenal Banter Archive October 19 2014

19 Oct 2014 21:56:27
Normally, after the dust has settled, I try to post positive after a poor result.

But I'm struggling.

10 goals and 11 points behind Chelsea after 8 games is not ideal.

Will try my best.

Theo is nearly back.
Gnabry is nearly back.
Olly will be back soon.

My car just past MOT.

{Ed025's Note - but will gnabry?.. :)

19 Oct 2014 22:13:34
Ed,

He's back but probably won't play :-)

19 Oct 2014 21:44:02
G62,

Good post about Dortmund/Klopp.

Totally agree mate.

19 Oct 2014 20:58:48
Anyone remember the Rooney dive that conned the ref and brought an end to the invincibles run at old trafford?
Anyone also remember the Pires dive against Portsmouth at home that conned the ref to win a penalty and make the invincibles possible early in our undefeated season?
Does it make me a bad fan to remember both and not to justify Pires because it was in our favour yet rip into Rooney as a cheating :%&#@ because it cost us so dearly?
To be a good fan do you have to wear rose tinted glasses or is possible to love the club but still say it as you honestly see it?

19 Oct 2014 21:34:11
Good point G62,

Nothing wrong with rose tinted glasses, but I think you should call it as you see it.

Do you remember when Vieira spat at Ruddock?
I got slaughtered by my Liverpool/Utd/West Ham supporting mates, but I had to be man enough, and honest enough to say it was a disgusting thing to do.

Let's be honest, we are happy to benefit from a dodgy penalty, but have to accept when one goes against us.

That's why football is great and why all fans are fickle.

19 Oct 2014 19:25:05
Dortmund have just lost 3 consecutive league games on the trot, they have a lot of injuries at the moment too but Klopps response?
No excuses we are playing badly and that's why we are loosing, its down to me and the players no one else and no one is going to help us sort it out either, its up to us to put right.
I love a bloke who doesn't make excuses who doesn't hide behind refs mistakes and also isn't afraid to upset his precious players when they let him and the fans down.
Man up admit your mistakes and failings accept your responsibilities and move forward with dignity, not sniveling excuses about referees mistakes and how others should conform to your views on loans spending etc,

19 Oct 2014 19:51:24
gunner62,

I attempted to reply to you earlier re my can of MTFU retort to yet more misery. I want to expand on it for you mate as I was somewhat hacked off at the time and no doubt offended you and others.

It's like this post, an opportunity to have yet another go at Wenger.

My opinion is just not one of Wenger out and the current trend of posters trying to pull as many as possible up onto that particular band wagon and as for hoping we don't make top four, that just beggars belief.

There was talk about fans taking the mick out of United and that it's embarrassing, it's banter, they have been poor, open to be shot at and have and will do it to us, as do spurs and chavs and the liverpool boys.

What is embarrassing is going on their pages and seeing them whine and bleat exactly as some are on here. Like Dags pointed out about a guy called Swan on the Everton page, saying something like what was he on. You can bet your bottom dollar they are laughing at us now.

g62, you've worked for your charity for 9 years under strict financial constraints but achieved great but not brilliant results, your boss couldn't have asked for more. Now the constraints are off but so are you, get your p45 you're out of here. This is what people want of Arsene.

That supporters/fans what ever they want to call themselves don't have any appreciation or concept of that amazes me to this day, Arsene now has a 3 year contract to build another great side and has bought some top top players, no one expected us to win the league this year but 8 games in and 6 points from 2nd we are now a pile of 5h1te.

People are creaming over Mourinho and a Barca reject. Pathetic if you want my opinion. His tactics constitute attacking weak sides or parking a Christ knows how many 100 million pound bus against the good sides as opposed to the of likes Hull or Stokes £10 million pound bus.

Every man and his dog can see we are at least a CB and DM short, for all their money United brought Rojo and Daley Blind but couldn't get a Mangala, Hummels or Vidal. Sometimes you simply cannot buy who you want.

City and Chelsea have amassed money no object squads over the last God knows how many years. Arsene has had 12 months and he gets slated because he hasn't done it in 12 months stating that Mourinho has, no, he simply added to his money no object squad.

Arsene will know who he wants of that I'm sure and I'm not going down the line of Wenger out until he fails to get the right players, 12 months or less into having the money to get it right. That in my opinion is pathetic.

City paid £32 million for Mangala, one game looked a world beater the next a donkey, now out injured, so mid way through October they have 1 game for their £32 million, I am not saying he will not be a great buy but players take time to settle and not even Arsene can legislate for injury no matter how bad a rep we have for them.

You and others wanted the world class Balotelli, he has shown he is exactly the same clown who played for City. People wanted Sakho and Lovren, how well are they doing for Liverpool. Others wanted Wilfred Bony, what's he doing?

I replied to you before about having to buy players for less than £16 million each whilst City or Chelsea didn't have to concern themselves with that, Abramovich wanted Torres, £50 million pound later he had him. It simply didn't work like that at Arsenal.

The team are not performing, certain players are not performing, to me Mertesacker should be our back up CB, a top quality left sided CB should be brought in and Koscielny moved back to the right. Square pegs, round holes.

Yes I wanted to see them arrive in the summer but unless you're going down the line of buying Winston Reid or Diame and some of the abject players linked with us in the summer including Balotelli, which would then have those same people crying out that we wasted money they were poor buys. How many did Remy bang in yesterday against Crystal bloody Palace with the Barca reject creating for him, oh a big fat ZERO!

I don't even know how someone cal allegedly go to the game and have nothing to report, not even talk of a great solo goal from Sanchez or a top quality finish from Welbeck. It's time to pick on every single thing Arsenal, from ticket prices to Wilshere losing the ball. Never a mention of how well he played for England or how well any of the Arsenal boys did. Just everything negative.

Tactics, tell me, any of you if we had purchased Bender and Mangala as first team players do you think we would play any other way or simply have a much stronger defence. People bleat about stuff that is pathetic. It's like saying we have £208 million in the bank when it's been shown clearly we have £107 million and requirements to have a constant rolling balance etc. That's not saying we couldn't have signed two cheap fill in players but like I said when they filled in and failed who would be getting slated then, we can't have it every way no matter how much we want it. People are creaming over Carvalho but if he is worth the buy out clause of £37 million my arsenal is a tulip.

I am more than happy to wait for next summer when I think without doubt that Wenger will fill in the holes and we will mount challenges on all fronts, I don't subscribe to the he has lost it whining, he can buy 5 quality players in the summer but is clueless.

This team is not performing to its best, Ramsey has yet to show the player of last season whilst Jack has improved, Mertesacker has been woeful to be honest. But it's like people expect the best player in the world in each position. Ozil what ever position he plays is World Class which means he needs to stand up and be counted, not hide whinge or moan, which incidently I don't think he has.

To me, like I said before we have a genuine top quality British core with some genuine world class players we never had before. Debuchy, Sanchez, Chambers, Ospina and credit it to him, even Welbeck have proved great buys.

We have 2 world class players we didn't have 12 months ago, Ozil will play in the 10 role.

We are 8 games into the season that no one really believed we would win, we are like I said SIX POINTS from 2nd place, we are currently mucking about in fourth gear, Chelsea are in top gear and City, the title winners for me, are in 3rd occasionally 2nd gear.

Every one has an opinion fella but it really is cringe worthy reading the bleating, that is what the the other fans will be laughing at.

I understand that people want to complain as you and others are but others like me think that supporting the club as a whole is what counts.

If I offended you or others then I apologise, I'm nuts about this club but like to look at it without rose tinted glasses as much as I do with common sense.

SY4 always makes pretty much spot on comments and I note you say that we're never far away and I agree, but I agree in as much as we didn't have the money before to make that final step, we do now and no manager is going to achieve it in 12 months. Next summer will be the point if those players are not here that I will have real cause to question Wenger. Until then I remain firmly behind him and our players.

Probably easiest to leave you guys to it and say nothing.

Red I totally respect your views even though I don't agree with them in the slightest, you have every bit as much right to hold and voice your views as much as anyone else does, I don't believe Arsene will ever deliver another title for us, my opinion not yet right or wrong just my view and time will tell but I can totally assure you I want it to be wrong.
You say about my job? Well I take full responsibility for my results each week in what I do be them good or pathetic, I've achieved both more than once.
I've managed teams in my profession and they have both other and under achieved at times and I take the plaudits and rewards of success so I also take the full responsibility for failure of my team too.
We all learn much more about our self's in a minute of looking in the mirror than we do a life time of blaming others for our failings and trying to shift the blame for our mistakes to protect our ego.
When you get it right people will tell you how good you are its always worth listening to why they think the opposite of you sometimes

Good posts both of you. My problem is i'm not sure wenger is in the now. i'm not sure he's up to it, he is struggling with decisions, i'm getting on and i'm finding it harder to achieve the things I used to. Wenger is as well, he's labouring in the past.

19 Oct 2014 17:45:14
a lot of people rightly point out that the team seems quite top- heavy - not enough defenders, almost all midfielders prefer to play as attacking midfielders and all that - so are there any chances of current attacking squad players leaving in January to free up money (lowering the wage bill etc.) for the purposes of bringing in the necessary defensive reinforcements?

{Ed002's Note - I would not expect too much to happen in January.}

January is to much to hope for Ed I agree but do you see any real chance of it changing in the next 2 years and 30 games.

{Ed002's Note - The club will look to improve the squad every window.}

19 Oct 2014 17:03:56
Once again I think our January transfer window will have to play a major part in our champions league qualification efforts

19 Oct 2014 14:37:42
I've not posted much because I'm not a Wenger fan.
But even he must now see that there needs to be a change in his philosophy.
Why do we continue trying to pass our way through the middle.
All teams coming to our ground will get men behind the ball and shut up shop.
Why does both our left and right back push up at the same time leaving us wide open for a counter attack.
Why is our central defender PM4 one of the slowest in the league and his reading of the game has gone out of the window.
Which of the current top 10 teams would have either Arteta or Flaminni in their DM position.
Lesser teams in the league have better defensive organisation than we do.
Who is coaching our defence because we just cannot keep a clean sheet. Last season we had 17 clean sheets in the league and if we didn't have 4 nightmare games where we cconceded 20 goals we could have had the best defensive record .
The transfer window does not open til January so if Southampton West Ham and even Swansea can see out games why can't we.
Wenger you have bee so brilliant for the Arsenal in the past you are currently undoing all of that good work with your current philosophy.

Excellent post HOT, some very good points there mate.
We have no real fight in us no ability to dig deep when the going gets tough and also now the ability to open up the opposition as we once did.
Our way much like Barca's way has been rumbled and teams know how to stop us much more easily and at the same time pick us off on the break far to easily too.
The game and most teams have evolved while we have failed to keep pace with that evolution.

19 Oct 2014 14:11:59
Was watching the Barca vs Eibar game and as usual I found the pattern of the game and the style of Barca very similar to us, albeit with a couple of key differences. Firstly little Eibar, for the majority of the game were magnificent. They played a 5-3-2 formattion, defended deep and narrow and hit Barca on the break with the 2upfront, and it nearly worked, they had a break and should have gone 1 up. As a game plan it sounds familiar doesn't it! Barca huffed and puffed and for a long while couldn't find the space to break Eibar down. What they did do though was a) played a high pressure game, which continually resulted in them winning the ball back in Eibars half. This eventually started to tell, as Eibar started to get overran. Secondly, and the key difference between Barca and us at the moment, was the movement off the ball. Barca eventually broke Eibar as Xavi gave the ball, continued into the box and slipped the return pass into the goal. Sounds simple, which it obviously isn't, but the key is that the player who gets the goal scoring chance isn't carrying the ball when they enter the box. We on the other hand continually try and enter the box with the ball, with everyone else standing still watching. How many times does Wilshire get tackled trying to run into the box with the ball? We have an abundance of small but very quick players, so I just don't understand why our movement with the ball is so poor. We should be able to rip defenses apart, even in tight spaces if the players off the ball actually run across and in behind. It doesn't matter if they get the ball, it just starts to create problems for the defenders. The other issue for me is not pressing teams, especially at home. Dortmund ripped us apart doing exactly that. We have a youngish team, with fit players so we should be able to do this, even if just for the first 30 mins or so. So my conclusion is I hope Arsene watches a few more Barca games and realises just how far apart in style and execution we have become.

Fantastic post epping good analysis of the real bar a way bs our wannabe bar a style

I started putting pennies in a jar every time jack loses the ball at the edge of the box on attacks and i'm on track to retire early!

19 Oct 2014 21:26:31
Top post Epping

19 Oct 2014 13:19:33
So AW gets frustrated after the game, has it rubbed in his face that he should have added defensive reinforcements. Expected to add at least one defender in the window but it changed at the last minute - so already annoyed. Hates not winning especially when we dominated the game, frustrated a
Per and the ref. Comes off the field and gets poked and prodded by an interviewer who has never played or managed but digs in where AW knows his errors - how would YOU react?
If it was Fergie - there would have been no interview
He will add to the defence if players are available!

He has to add to stay BUT I think we should give him a chance

Totally agree, that interview with that female reporter was a joke. To me she hadn't a clue, I'm not being sexist, but Arsene was right she wasn't listening to him, and once again someone who thinks go spend to solve all problems and asks who's to blame.

I think the joke is actually these two posts not the interview. A reporter asks valid questions, thins the board don't seem to want to ask and you are playing the what does a woman know card? Disgraceful
Wenger has major questions to answer. Its about time someone had the guts to ask some.
You continue supporting Wenger's ridiculous answers and behaviour. Embarrassing.

19 Oct 2014 11:52:33
First post of the season.

I've been keeping away from debate around our form because, in all honesty, it can get a bit flared up.

BUT, it's getting to a point where I have to admit that our form is worrying. I generally defend Wenger because he achieved unbelievable things at our club and has guided us through a very tricky period - you only need to look at Man U right now to imagine how poor they'd have been with our budget over the last 10 years. Furthermore I'd rather support a team that keeps its principles than become City or Chelsea, whose success is all based on one rich guy having nothing better to do with his money.

That aside, I am coming round to the point of view of Wenger critics. He was over-achieving but is now under-achieving. We have a very strong attacking team now and sufficient funds to strengthen it defensively (without necessarily splashing mega cash). We desperately need a DM and another CB and I refuse to believe we couldn't at least get a very good DM for up to 20m (the lowest figure quoted as our remaining budget). This issue was clearly on show yesterday.

On the pitch, Wenger's style looks stubborn and out-dated. The way we were so comfortably beaten by Dortmund and Chelsea was embarassing. Top managers find it easy to beat Wenger now. To me, even with our defensive problems, we should be playing better than we are. Wenger's tactics have to be considered a major part of that. We are majorly under-performing.

It's still early in the season and we can turn it around. But, for me, if we don't improve this season, I will stop believing Wenger is still the right man for the job. I love the guy but we should be improving, not getting worse. The 2 tests are 1) strengthen defensively in the next window and 2) seriously challenge for the title or CL (by which I mean within 6 points of the title winners or CL finalists, if we don't win either). We have steadily been getting worse year on year - last year was the first time that stopped but it can't start again. there are no excuses now.

the game yesterday was a trigger because it showed how we are, so far, worse than last season. Last season we had embarassing losses to other big teams but beat the small teams. We beat Hull 2-0 and 3-0 in the league. I can accept only getting 2 points from Everton and City, even kind of accept losing away to Chelsea, but we have to beat Leicester and Hull, and Spurs at home. Last year we did very well against small teams - so far we are not doing that. If that's the case we need to beat Everton away, City at home and draw with Chelsea away. We are doing neither. 2 wins from 8 games does not reflect the strength of our team, even with our defensive problems. we're underachieving and Wenger needs to prove he can get more out of our team.

I do not post very often because my views on our position are already well known.The board have to act very soon, show some balls like Monaco did a few years ago and sack him.If they do sack him he should not be moved to a position somewhere else in the club, because he will undermine the new manager.We are a million miles away from what we should be achieving with these players, and his benchmark of a champions league place is fading very fast.His stubborness in not splashing ou t on a dm is nothing short of reckless and the result of that is clear to see.Personally speaking Jan transfer will to be to late to salvage this.My next bit of post is about us the fans.I personally think that the board do not give a toss about us and our views and feelings, I also think that AW feels that way to, its clear to see that when we question his methods.I really do think this is the time to make our feelings known in anyway shape or form you see fit.I said to my workmates oan Friday that we would lose 2-1 on Saturday and I was nearly right because believe me as I have said in previous posts this is not going to get any better, and before anybody says about our injuries, even with them fit not a lot would change, its the manager that needs to be changed very quickly.
Take care people
Heybridge Gooner

19 Oct 2014 09:12:01
A little rant.

Yes the team is short a couple players. But nobody seems to remember we spent massive amount of money on five fantastic players. All of them were needed and all of them strengthened the team. Yet we couldn't bring two more and now Wenger suddenly needs to go.

What happened to Bender? he decided to stay. Khedira? Stayed. Schneiderlin? Stayed. Carvalho? Stayed. Rabiot? Stayed. What I'm saying it wasn't easy to get a dm. We didn't get that but we got something else that was needed as well.

I agree we have weaknesses, but teams always have something to improve. This team was good enough to challenge City at home. It may not be good enough to win the title yet. Next year maybe. We have been a step behind the leaders for a while now but we surely are trying to catch up on them.

And lastly, the tactics of Wenger. He's so one-sided and he plays players out of position and what else. He's not perfect. But in my opinion he has over achieved for so many years now with the money he has had. He has spent it well this summer but the team remains incomplete. There's no reason he couldn't complete it with a bit more time.

There is no doubt that the 5 signings we made were excellent. However, for a top Premiership manager to go into a season with only 6 first team defenders is unforgiveable. Yesterday, we had to play Bellerin, who clearly isn't ready for our first team & Monreal who has struggled to convince at left-back, never mind at centre back. Our defensive midfield players are aging & off the pace. Flamini has been involved in quite a few of the goals we have conceded to date. Yes, we have spent heavily, but we had sufficient funds in hand to have bought at least one more centre back & a defensive midfield player. I fear for the team this season, as we have to survive until the new year without Debauchy, Ozil & Giroud. In addition, I don't like the sound of Koscielny's achilles injury. The next 3 matches are very important, if we can win them, confidence will return and we will be closing in on progressing in the CL, as well as elevating ourselves back into the top four of the premiership. I am not certain another manager would do any better than Wenger has done. Chelsea & Man City have spent huge amounts and realistically 3rd or 4th are the best we can hope for. We have the likes of Man U & Liverpool to compete with.

Excellent post iceman. I totally agree.

There is too much negativity on this site, things are disappointing at the minute yes I totally agree but to act the way some are on here is pretty scandalous in my opinion.

In the moments like this I support the team more, I relish the challenge and trust Arsene to get it right, but this isn't an over night job. He's building something here and it takes time, I for one glad he doesn't recklessly spend money, in fact I'm proud of it. People hear we have money and say, "why haven't we a bought a world class dm, or striker or center back" it's not that easy and if it was I'm sure we would do it. This isn't fifa, this is reality, plain and simple players weren't available or were priced out of a move.

For years we've competed with the best while being way below there levels in terms of our expenditure, but now has said we can compete financially and we've seen the likes of Ozil, Sanchez, Welbeck, Debuchy, and Chambers come in. When the right player is available Wenger will try get him, people on here need to be more supportive, I know there's a lot of paying supporters who have the right to voice there opinion, and non paying as well, that's fair enough I just feel we need to be more understanding and supportive.

Wenger is building something, and let's face it, if we bought a DM and center back our squad would be very solid, but they have to be right and available. In Wenger I trust, he's building something and I'm excited for the future with our squad and it's potential.

Ice/Yorkshire I respect your views and opinions very much and you may be proven right yet but just because I don't share them doesn't make me negative, I it makes me honest in my views.
I am as entitled to voice my opinion as you are yours if not this is just an Arsene appreciation page and not everyone feels like that anymore.
I don't agree with your Arsene will bring us glory view but I do respect your right to hold it and voice it.

19 Oct 2014 11:45:55
Iceman and Yorkshire unfortunately there are those who love to bleat under any circumstances but fear not I have a few cans of Man the Phuck up left over from last seasons car boot I did up in Manchester!

YG you are entitled to your views which I respect but there are glaring mistakes and errors of judgement being made for our club, that are ruining our season. One man is making them. It wasn't the signings he made but the ones he didnt. He now complains against teams who are physical, wecstruggle. Yes we do and that's because of his very philosophy.

It's weird how the Arsene can do no wrong brigade can not respect the views of others but those who have long since lost confidence in Arsene can respect those who still back him 100%.
Wonder what that tells us?
Change really does scare some people I guess, they get the bus because they've always got the bus as their father got the bus before them and have no time for those who would like a train station in the town

19 Oct 2014 13:07:16
Well said G62. Amd there are a lot of us who are't 100% certain either way. Both sides of the argument have credibility. FWIW I can't see us winning the league under Wenger unless he changes how he does things and delegates more - not really his thing. But implementing change, often means you stumble until the new ways are integrated. So it's going to be a bit Groundhog Day one way or another this year probably.

19 Oct 2014 08:04:23
Have a look at Southampton, I think it shows there are good managers out there, early days but RK is doing a fine job with 'lesser' players.

AW has served his time, we will never ever sack the man I have said on numerous occasions.

I would hope he would realise he has served his time and move on. even the arrogant SAF could do that that.

My prediction

We will finish outside the top four for the first time in many years, I have seen enough to know there are better sides than us.Man U will improve and have more match winners, will we improve???

I think we will improve mate and paper over the cracks one more and for the last ttime.
We'll get some players back and go on a run and loads of people will say ' if it wasn't for our injuries " we would be champions ' again:-).
January Arsene won't buy what we need he may shut the door after the horse has bolted and loan a DM or CB at best, come the summer there will be comings and goings some good some disappointing but while Arsene Fix's the problems of 2010/11season utd city Chelski Liverpool Everton spurs will be very much focused on the present and future.
Arsene Wenger has been brilliant but Sadly HAS been is the right term

I'm sure with the present set up we will finish outside top 4. Wenger has this ability to paper the crack, but he's making more and more bad errors in judgement and quite honestly he's lost it.

I don't think the season will be plain sailing for anyone but chavs and city and the rest of us 3rd and 4th place wanna be's will all have ups and downs in the months ahead.
The gap between us and the top two has widened and the one between us and the ones below narrowed, time is catching up with Arsene more and more each passing month now

18 Oct 2014 23:58:02
i said to friends just after the transfer window shut that 2 teams who got 2 of the best bargain deals were

bayern munich- alonso for something like 5 million

hull- diame for 3>5 miilion I think.
would any of you's liked any of them at arsenal, considering their price?
i wanted us to get diame a year or 2 ago and even said this year that we probably could have got diame, plus winston reid as cb cover for between 6 to 7 million.
but will wenger ever buy a cdm, seeing as arteta is captain and is playing him there?


on the wenger in/ out debate I am unsure on it but maybe last year he could have went on a high.but when he does go he will either go to france or still be running the club from upstairs and a top manager will not want to work under something like that.

19 Oct 2014 05:26:42
Diame is a good player for teams like West Ham or Hull. But I feel we should be aiming higher. Khedira, Pogba, Gundogan, Bender, Carvalho. Etc.

But yeah, at £3.5m that's a good deal. He'd be a great second choice to replace Diaby/Flamini.

19 Oct 2014 06:54:37
Diame is leagues ahead of both Arteta and Flamini. That said, he's still only good enough to be a sub/spare.
We shouldve got Carvalho aswell and simply told both arteta and flamini that, sorry but you're not good enough and you're not needed. there's the door, adios

AG is bang on there we can't turn down diame when we have arteta and flamini ffs

But we should be looking higher than diame but the fact we signed no one is unforgivable