Arsenal Banter Archive February 20 2013

 

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20 Feb 2013 23:20:51
Here we go again Barcelona back to there old tricks again. Barcelona have there eye set on jack and there players have started the process of tempting the player to come to them. Dani Alves has started the process in saying he will be a barcelona player and take over from Inesta. There will be more and more players from barcelona saying stuff about jack in the next few months to try and tempt him away in the summer. Barcelona have got to be one of the dirtiest teams transfer wise. I would love for them to come out in the summer and say they want jack and for jack to publicly reject them, they are getting to big for there boots just thinking they can mention a players name and he will just come running to them with a click of there fingers.

top gunner {Ed027's Note - they won't get him, Jack is a fan and still very young

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20 Feb 2013 23:09:13
So much has been said over the Arsenal predicament I thought I'd add my tuppence worth!

The media attention is not helping. Those hacks could pressurise someone into having a break down or worse. The media have to be sensationalist to get a reaction else they would be out of a job. If I were Arsenal I would stop giving interviews and all the associated junk which comes with it. Get fined, let more garbage come from the press but get yourselves together and right the wrongs without added distractions.

Wenger is not stupid but stubborn and perseveres too long before facing the inevitable. IMHO:

Szczesny is a couple of years away from being genuinely class, an experienced pair of gloves should be bought in to shore things up.

Give Sagna a two year contract, the man has fight in his belly.

Mertesacker should only play against the slower teams, he is no match for players with speed and mobility. A beast of a centre half should be bought in.

Arteta is not a DCM. This position needs to be sorted by an enforcer, it would stop a lot of goals against us.

A proper world class centre forward needs to be purchased.

Tactics - stop the nonsense known as zonal marking. Man for man everyday. Would love to see the stats on goals scored on corners won in comparison with goals conceded on corners conceded, don't think this would make happy reading. Why do we not mix in a few short corners?

4 - 3 - 3 is a joke, leaves us too exposed and vulnerable. 4 - 4 - 2 with more solidity is a must.

Would anyone else like to see Song and Nasri back at the Emirate? Least we were stronger with them in the team!

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Not sure why so many disagree with this post as it seems pretty spot on to me. Yes the Nasri bit is controversial, but Song was the most stupid transfer business we have possibly ever done. Honestly Nasri has failed badly at City, but he was a success with us, and if I had to I could maybe swallow some pride if he could.
Bring clear neither will happen but they are far from mad. The general gist of this post is something I for one would tend to agree with, and better than the tired 'Wenger's lost it' or 'Wengers got to go' posts.

The ghost of Terry Mancini

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20 Feb 2013 22:17:34
Oh god dani alves, leave our jack alone. He hasn't got barca DNA and he never will. If wilshere leaves I honestly think I will cry
Anhowa

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20 Feb 2013 21:43:58
Just watched ac milan destroy barcelona.

even when a big club is down on its luck like ac milan they still have a big game in them.

this is what big clubs are able to do in europe.

what player at ac milan can the club not afford?

we have a better revenue than them yet we can't compete with them on the pitch.

there has been no progress under wengers policys in over 5 years.

time for change

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Champagne whilst you make some valid points in some of your posts your crusade against Wenger is becoming tiresome. We all know the failings at arsenal please can you give it a rest now we all know how you feel and it is tiresome reading the same regurgetated posts

Paul v

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Paul you are so right. Charlie it's great you care so much, it's great you do so much to keep this site alive, but honestly let's work out who knows best Arsene? Or Charlie? Come on he is world renowned, the most successful manager in our history, and has made us one of the best sides in the world for a generation!
Please give the constant anti Wenger stuff a miss for a while. It doesn't help - and it can't be much good for your soul either. Keep the posts up and turn down the Wenger hatred.

The ghost of Terry Mancini

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20 Feb 2013 21:20:14
I would just like to point out that it may be a while before the club gets it right in terms of our next manager. Replacing someone like Arsene is hard. I can't for the life of me understand why we'd go and build the Emirates, accrue the funds we have, and not line up someone like Pep or Jose, regardless of whether the fans agree or not, it is what would be logical. The next logical thing would be to buy top players obviously.

But, it may take a long time before we eventually find the guy who will perform a 10-year reign. Those sorts of managers are rare. So if we go through 3 managers in 2 years I won't care as long as it means we are on our quest to find the best possible person for the club. If, somehow, we manage to find the right guy right off the bat then I will consider that a bonus. Things might even get worse on the pitch before they get better (somehow) but all I hope for is that someone tries to revive our style. It won't happen with average players.

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Replacing Wenger won't be as hard as we think. There has been a steady decline since the heyday of the invincible's way back in 2004. This season we have lost to Bradford & Blackburn in the domestic cups. We are for all intensive purposes out of the CL, although being beaten by an excellent Bayern Muncich team is no disgrace, it was the manner of the defeat. We have more chance of being caught by Everton & Liverpool, than getting above either Chelsea or Tottenham. My choices for manger are Mourinho ideally or Moyes. Both look as though they would be available in the summer & both could easily better Wenger's performance this season. I have lost faith in Wenger for various reasons, both in terms of his tactics, playing squad & his demeanour.

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Only moyes would stay long term. I think arsene will sort this out though.

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20 Feb 2013 20:07:00
Ed you or anyone know if Van Perssies' 6 year old son is still with Us or did he sign for utd same time as his father did? I remember last year around that time (mid February or March) have heard on tv -tv (when AW was still licking RvP bottom and tried everything he could to make him sign a new contract) that we signed his son. Is RvP junior -i don't know his name on Arsenal payroll? {Ed027's Note - i highly doubt it

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20 Feb 2013 21:48:21
Hi there I heard that there will be a major change in ownership, management in the club this summer and that there will be bought at least 3 marquee signings?
is there something to it or just rubbish?

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20 Feb 2013 21:08:41
Am I the only person who is curious what ed 022's day job is?

Chimney sweep Josh {Ed002's Note - As far as I know he is at school still.}

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His real name is Ivan. Got a well paid job in north London. Reads all our posts and laughs at us. His best mate is stan. They communicate by sign language as stan lost his voice after choking on a Denver nugget

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20 Feb 2013 20:53:39
You call it "8 years without a trophy", I call it "the ultimate test of our loyalty"
!! ARSENAL TILL I DIE!!

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Loyalty is sticking to your team when they treat you with respect and give it their all even if they're not doing so well. NOT blindly cheering along a bunch of money hungry crooks that rip you off because they know your "loyalty" means that you won't ever stop paying.

Use your head. fans like you making loyalty comments is the exact reason why the fans get exploited and the board puts the "quality" in their pockets instead of on the pitch.

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Simply Red is right. The fact so many agree with Scooby just shows many here have never been there through hard times before. No club goes with out a difficult era. Oh and by the way most have it 100 times worse than us - ask any spurs fan who has spent 20 years behind us and yet still kept supporting their side. 1 year behind them and you are all giving up!

Sadly it makes you wonder who the better fans are doesn't it? Now that is controversial to say here. But justify why it isn't so. Oh and by the way, the real fans turn up and keep supporting, and we're pretty great against Bayern.

The ghost of Terry Mancini

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Well said Scooby spot on

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20 Feb 2013 20:11:31
edoo2 could you see cesc fabregas back at arsenal in the summer {Ed002's Note - No.}

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20 Feb 2013 19:48:33
Don't like Barca's away kit looks like a packet of Opal fruits.

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Starbursts BA, your showing your age!

337

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I'll agree with Opal Fruits!

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Their performance last night certainly was not "Made to make your mouth water":)

Shaneyd

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Fruit salads I believe

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20 Feb 2013 19:47:25
The loss last night was entirely predictable - and thanks to the bookmakers for the odds on what was one of the most obvious results in recent years.

Bayern are with Barcelona the best side in the world, only United could challenge them. They outclassed Chelsea in last year's final and only lost because of a fluke and Drogba. Their reaction to that was simply to address the critical defensive midfield problem and spend big - as they always have and always will from time to time.

We had no chance even at our peak this year. So don't get carried away by this result, they would be most any team in the world, and who are we kidding if we think we are anything that good?

The loss wasn't as bad as it could have been - we were not outclassed as even two United supporting fans I know agree. We defended badly - but then who couldn't predict they would run rings around Mertesacker and Koscielny - our worst central defensive partnership in a generation. Also the standard weakness of NO CDM, again who can be surprised they ran through us with ease at times.

However, we still made a game of it for substantial proportions of the game. Oh and don't believe the rubbish that one or two have said that this was because Bayern weren't trying! What idiocy - they are the most professional club side in the world - they will always try until the tie is won.

So last night told us nothing. We already knew we desperately need a central defender to go alongisde Vermailen - yes Samba would do some of the tick on that front. The next thing, is just as bayern realised, you can't win with out a CDM - I know we all agree on this - except for Arsene. The names for this role are so obvious I am bored saying them.

With those two additions we would be a top four side, if we avoid Barclena, Bayern and United we would have chances of making the quarter finals of the ECL, and wow who knows maybe one day beat a team beginning with the letter be in a cup and win a trophy.

Don't write Szeczny off - he is young for god's sake and has the most dreadful defence in front of him. Give him time he has clear talent, yes maybe get back up that is a bit more resolute but don't write him off.

Don't write Santi, Giroud or Podolski off - season one is always hard - do you remember Thierry and Bobby Pires?

Don't write off the core of young British talent off from Jack, to Gibbs they need time and our support.

Don't write Arsene off - his success and loyatly mean we can give him another year yet.

Don't think we will sign any of the mad names that keep getting mentioned here from Hummels to Jovetic, it simply will not happen, and to get us to a level where we can compete again it isn't necessary - nice yes but not necessary.

Do sell the dozen or so obvious names that aren't able to cut it, and if we can't sell them just let them go - you know the names - Arshavin, Gervinho, Djourrou and on.

Do bring in a new Director of Football Development that will attract and mould young talent - Dennis Bergkamp is such an obviou choice.

Do get rid of some of the people around Arsene who aren't strong enough characters and will never replace him - and get someone in who can take over when Arsene moves upstairs to Director of Football.

Do bring Thierry in - I dn't care where or why - just give us the boost.

Do learn from Bayern - you can use your core great old players to manage and push your club forward. Do learn from Bayern you don't have to spend recknlessly you have to spend ruthlessly and effectively. Do learn from Bayern a proper football club can still be great - you don't have to be the disgusting Chelski or City to do that.

Is all of the above possible? Yes 100%. Does it matter if we don't qualify for the ECJ? Yes and no. One season will not be an issue. The players we can bring in, who we can afford and will come here, aren't necessarily ones that will only contemplate ECL. One season out with the emphasis on regeneration (note not revolution) is the key, the constant 4th place isn't as important as that.

Anyway just my thought - and my hopes. Here's to the 4-0 win in Munich (please note I will not be visting the bookmakers on that one whatever the odds).


The ghost of Terry Mancini

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Dreamer!

he has failed.

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Charlie
The day you stop dreaming is the day you fall out of love. It's true for any relationship, it's true for life, and it's true for football, so I'll take the comment as a compliment thanks.

If you don't dream you can become a bitter person who never sees potential or hope, you lose that and you lose any chance of progress. That's what gives you Thierry, it's the dream that saw the promise in a young Cesc, or that allows us to recognise Jack can be our next superstar, it's what has given us some of he most beautiful and flowing football in he world, it's what gave us Highbury, and The Emirates, it's what made Charlie George and Lam Brady fulfill their ambitions.

So okay if you want see me as a dreamer, but it's what drives ambition, hope, fortitude, and ultimately realism. Without it you have an empty shell. It's one f the reasons, apart from his staggering loyalty, why I find it so hard to turn against Arsene.

Oh and b he way there has never ever been a successful club that didn't dream.

The ghost of Terry Mancini

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20 Feb 2013 19:37:11
Eds, can I ask what is going on with some of my posts?

If I type three full stops it only comes as one, making it look like I ended a sentence mid way through. It always does this.

I put 'R' in a post when talking about forwards and it changed it to 'are'. Also, I put 'B' as in be team in the post and for some reason it put the word 'be' - any ideas?

I double checked the posts. I find a lot of my posts are altered slightly from what I send in, do you have filters on or something? {Ed001's Note - the filters are meant to have been changed to stop it changing single letters to full words. It was done because of people (especially me) moaning about the imbecilic use of text speak, which I hate with a passion. But the changing of single letters to words is not the answer to that and it was supposed to have been removed. I will get that sorted. The full stops thing was to stop people putting hundreds of them in and messing up the page formatting, again it is only meant to stop long rows of them, not 3 or 4. I will have that fixed too.}

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Ahhh I see, thanks v much. I can understand why you did it no worries!

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'imbecilic'.
Nice one ed, shall be using that at some point tomorrow
AG

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20 Feb 2013 19:26:31
Quick question to those who used the first capital connect to the game last night.
What was worse Arsenal performance - agree
Train journey there and back - disagree

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The game but I drove there
rg

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20 Feb 2013 19:20:28
Anyone who hasn't already done so I strongly recommend reading Phil mcnulty's piece on the tv website.
Unlike talksh!t or the daily fail or the mirror or Sky the tv is usually very neutral in its commentary on club matters and for a piece to be this strongly written on their website is very telling indeed.
AG

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Forgive me for the daft question but can you give us the name of the article? Which tv website do you mean? The latest thing Mcnulty wrote for the tv that I can find was back in September so I'm not sure I'm looking in the right place!

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Its the filters metal.
The bravo bravo Charlie sport website if you're versed in NATO phonetics
AG

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Ag what's the name of the article? I went on there before and they were all dated 2012, am I looking in the right place?

Cheers

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20 Feb 2013 19:10:50
If we lose Jack wilshere, it will be the day I question my status as an arsenal fan. Heart and soul every match, a proper arsenal player

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If jack walks I'm done w this regime till every one of them is gone.

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No player is bigger than the club, but someone needs to remind Arsene that that goes for managers too

1404

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All I know is if other teams with our resources have a player this good, they build the team around him to compliment the situation. It's called making the most of what you have and giving that player the best possible platform to be the best they can. You don't play Wilshere as a DM, you sign the best DM you can get your hands on and you let Wilshere play forward. You also sign the best forwards who make the best runs and convert the smallest of chances, to compliment having such a midfielder. You don't play Gervinho and hope for something out of this world.

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20 Feb 2013 18:21:42
1. I'm very disappointed we lost
2. Where is everyone getting this "outclassed" and "played off the pitch"

Name me one spell they did to us over 10 min what we did to them in the second half.

When were they spraying our goal w shots in a rapid fire mode.?

Hell, name me their key offensive passage. when were we pinned back for extended periods of time

They scored 3 lucky goals. I'm also angry we lost, but maybe 15 percent of you are OBJECTIVE based off of observations

Mert, Verm, Sczcesny and in a bit part Arteta (Muller's cross for 1st) were the reason we gave up schoolboy goals

But to say we were dominated is ridiculous.

What Barca did to us first 20 min at Emirates is "domination" or "out-classed"

Yesterday was mistake ridden football with a solid dose of bad luck.

Giroud could have scored. Jack could have scored. both those shots were more crisp shots than their last two shots at goal. how is that possible when "we" were outclassed

I remember the attitude here when Milan routed us first leg, and you all bitched and moaned, and you ridiculed me when I said we would come back.

1. Milan got very lucky that second leg
2. This tie is not over in the least bit

Unless you're analyzing this objectively you lot might as well be the media.

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Bayern were not even trying. Were supposed to be the home side and they barely got out of third gear the whole game, the gulf in class was clear. Their goalkeeper deals with stuff, ours doesn't, their defence is organised, ours isn't, their midfield were in control, with the exception of jw10 ours didn't show up. Their attackers take their chances, ours don't even get chances to squander.
Ergo we were outclassed. Pretty heavily if you take the opinion of about everyone who saw the game with the exception of a few deluded fans with the rise tinted glasses glued to their ears.
AG

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Can you please explain to me what area of the pitch we were better than Munich last night.

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Not to sound too negative, but we were out Arsenal-ed. they kept the ball well, applied pressure, hit us on the counter time and time again and made the most of what they got. heck, their goofy defensive work on the corner was more "Arsenal" than us.
definitely not outclassed, but we were outplayed as far as team strategy goes. Jupp said that they were hoping for a scoring draw at worst and they worked for it.

it's easy to get caught up in the media-fueled hate, but that's why I posted about focusing on our next game instead of dwelling on this one.

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Agree with AG they didn't even start with Gomez. Was annoyed when our team selection was announced.
TBH no matter what our team selection would have been Munich would have been to classy for us. They would just find away and their far better organised.

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100% outclassed. throughout that game at no point did it feel like we could score and we only did due to a massive mistake. Everytime they had the ball I was scared that it would end in a goal. they are littered with world class players who were up for it and we had jack wilshere.

JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH

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Us Gooner I usually find your post very good so please don't take this the wrong way, but what were you watching in the first half? I thought that was one of the best organised teams we had come up against in years to be honest, after the first half I must admit I thought that they could beat anyone, never panicked, never looked bothered whoever we had on the ball. they kinda reminded of us 10 years or so ago

1404

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Despite getting a face full of smoke from the flares that went off at the start it wasn't enough to block my view of a terrible performance. Yes we played well for 10 MINUTES. But take your arsenal glasses off. We were poor at best.

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Gomez is not nearly as good as Mandzukic

That is their first 11. what Bayern do you guys watch?

100% outclassed is ridiculous. keep moaning because you're angry. thank god football isn't coached that way {Ed002's Note - Gomez will likely move to England this summer.}

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Also, pretty sure we outplayed them last 15 of first half too.

100% domination huh?

Are you ashamed to call yourself Arsenal fans or something or just want a pity party?

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20 Feb 2013 18:04:22
I have said several times to mixed reviews that I want Wenger gone at the end of the season because I feel he does not give us the best chances of winning things. I have provided examples of this loads of times.

How many people disagree now? How many people feel that yesterday, with that line up, formation and instructions, Wenger gave us the best chance of winning the game?

Let me see. First of all, the formation. We set up 433 at home on paper which quickly became 4231 as Jack and Arteta both hung back. Not only this, we stuck to it so rigidly for 45 mins that Jack and Arteta were indistinguishable from CBs for that half. I thought this was a home game in a competition we're supposedly in with a shout of winning? (Tongue firmly in cheek). Anyway, because of this, it meant Santi was all over the place, he was meant to be out wide - when he was, we had no midfielder to look for, and when he came inside he was smothered. This resulted in long balls to Theo of all people, because he was playing centrally.

So the first laughable thing is we not only set up with a poor formation. The second laughable thing is we then went uber defensive at home and didn't even stick to 433 because the players hate it and were all out of position. we were just a mess.

We had Theo in the middle instead of wide right.
We had Ramsey wide right instead of DM or bench.
We had Pod wide left instead of one of two up top (ok this never happens, but still, without Gibbs or Giroud Pod is always anonymous)
We had Santi out of position
We had Jack, our best player, in a defensive role for the whole first half.
He and Arteta were doing the same thing. Always side by side, within yards of each other, no movement, no movement from the rest, long balls to Theo as a result, lose possession as a result.
Sagna played. There is no way on earth Jenko would have been as bad. Jenko earned his Arsenal stripes in the champs league in way more important games than this and did well.
We played Verm at LB instead of basically anyone else. He has never had a good game there, we have never been present down the left when he's played there, but Sagna and other have been great there.
We need a new keeper.
We played a team who will simply give you no space unless our player beats his man, draws another player and the space is created. SO what do we do? We leave two of our best player-beaters at the club - Diaby and Rosicky, who glide past players - on the bench, and we make the third play as a DM.

Do I think Rogers, Martinez, Moyes, Klopp, Laudrup would have played Jack as a DM? Or Arteta? Would they have left Rosicky on the bench but played Ramsey RW?

We can all do 'if he had played this team or that team formation' til our fingers ache so I won't but let's be real, we knew straight away that we were in with a bad shout as soon as the team sheet went up. Someone tell me when our midfield of Jack, Santi and Arteta has looked exceptional and dominated games consistently? It hasn't. But there have been enough games where Rosicky alone has turned the game on his head, or Diaby has driven us out from the back, to know that we had a way better chance of some good fortune last night had those players started. Hell, a hundred other line ups could have been better thought out than what we got.

Yes we came up against a way classier team - but that team didn't really hit it's stride against us, don't forget that. We have seen this before, enough times to know it's a real problem. Liverpool offer nothing and we draw. Man U play like they're having a dress rehearsal to forget and still beat us. Bayern in the champs league bring their be form with their Star team and trounce us! And where was the amazing goal? All three of their goals were average. More from our own poor play than anything spectacular.

If the Arsenal line up that played West Ham and a few others had played last night, we'd at least have been in with a shout of a half decent performance. Bayern weren't great at all - we were terrible. You can blame the players, sure, but it doesn't matter who plays, the results are always the same. So you have to look higher. The manager seems to have one tactic, which is defend first half, attack second - except we can't defend. How do you explain an entire season of Jeckyll and Hyde performances? How is it that Jack can come alive in the second half but first half is glued to the half way line. I don't think this is the players. I think it's their instructions. Either way, enough is enough. We've had a revolving door of players for the last 3 years yet every season has yielded identical results to predicted time frames too.

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Metal, I read your post and agree with many things, i'm still not sure over wenger because i'm not sure if he left anyone would know what they were doing ( board)

but you say diaby could have played or rosicky but then if that hadnt have worked we'd have complained, diaby has been awful and was against blackburn, everyone would have crucified him had he not played too well

I understand your fustration but I don't think it matters who we played because I still felt bayern could have upt it even more mate.

Testing times for sure!

Yorkshire Gooner Joe :D

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Im agree with you totally Metal everything on the pitch which goes right or wrong, selection, tactics substitutions and motivation lies firmly at the feet of the manager
Heybridge Gooner

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Good read

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Very true Joe, but if you were to say 'can Ramsey beat players' the answer is no. So he doesn't start. Work your way down the list and its obvious who we should have started the game with.

Basically, the same logic that saw Sagna start (ie. him being our best hope of a top RB performance) was not applied to the midfielders or RW position at all. Or left back.

Metal Gooner

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Im just tryna look at it from the other perspective, wenger can't win! jenko starts, looks rusty and you ask why he's thrown into this game!

Mate don't get me wrong I ain't disagreeing but I just genrally think what ever team played, the same outcome would arise

Yorkshire Gooner Joe :D

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Sorry miss read your post, very true metal.

However how many options and good players do we have, not many! gervinho out of sorts ox?


Yorkshire Gooner Joe:D

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20 Feb 2013 17:59:28
Boro Primorac OUT! Freshen things up a bit with new blood and motivation around the training pitch. The team has no shape playing with fear and lacking confidence. Patrick Vieira recently said we 'lack belief' which is all too clear to see.
I personally would like to see an infectious hard-working character like Nigel Adkins coming in to replace Primorac, working as first team coach under Arsene Wenger.
Adkins record at previous clubs is brilliant, immediately replacing Wenger is a step too far right now at too big a club. But I could genuinely see this working if his role as first team coach was successful for 2-3 years moulding him for the eventual Manager role.
We aren't Chelsea or the spurs constantly chopping and changing our Manager. I would hate to see us with Ancelotti/ Mourinho/ Pellegrini etc etc for two years then another one comes along. I want Arsenal FC to be the biggest club our next Manager has ever been at so he feels awe and great pride at the project of leading us forward.
Thoughts/feedback very much appreciated.

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Change of manager normally brings about a change of coaching staff. I wouldn't have been disappointed with Wilkins being an Arsenal coach he's done a good job wherever his been.

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Trouble is Wenger is a control freak he would not stand anybody telling him to get rid of primorac and bringing someone like Adkins in, but I can see were your train of thought is but all backroom staff are trained in Wengerways, Adkins might like some proper input, but in my opinion AW wouldn't stand for it, see him as a threat
The clue is to get rid of AW first

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20 Feb 2013 17:27:47
Isco, marc andre der stegen are barcelona bound, and get this barcelona are confident of landing thomas vermalen from Arsenal.

Sanchez, Valdez and david villa on the way out.

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20 Feb 2013 17:01:32
ed027 what's your thoughts on what's going on at arsenal?

what do you think is happening behind the scenes?

are the club going in the right direction? {Ed027's Note - i think things will improve, after a little insight of what Ed002 has said, i like yourselves can't wait for the whole script

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20 Feb 2013 16:50:18
Have I missed Ed002's news on up coming changes am sure he said something about after Tuesday?

Last night isn't the end of the world, did anyone actually expect us to trouble Bayern? They are an immense team and at present we are not on there level. The fact it wasn't a total hammering I find heartening.

We all know the current level of the squad isn't good enough, we all know we have signed some truly shocking players. However I am now of the opinion we are in a new transitional stage. I have listened to and read to experts, pundits and us the fans and have come to this conclusion. We had to for the previous 6 years scout for players below the level required to consistently challenge at the top. There have been exceptions Vermaelen and the 20M bid for Reina. Things have definitely changed now however with emphasis now on reducing the wage bill of the deadwood. Look at the last 2 transfer windows we have shipped out dross and brought in quality. We have also tried and failed with approaches for likes of David Villa. We slate Wenger, we get angry with him and to a degree rightly so. Please remember though he knows you need players of Viera's quality of Bergkamps genius. Santi is joy, Wilshere already in the worlds top midfielders. In January I think Wenger sat back and looked at the table and thought right the league is over, Bayern will be extremely difficult. I do however desperately need a new left back, so he goes and signs the current world and Europeans left back who looks quality. I think come the summer he will sign a top class keeper, centre back, defensive midfielder and striker. Would like to see a left winger come in to. In the summer you have more choice, prices are lower so over pay January when frankly it wouldn't have made a massive difference t our season.

Going out of both cups to lower league opposition is very disappointing, but it happened for the first time in 10 years. let's not over react, Manchester United get knocked out and people don't call for Fergie's head.

In summary Wenger has seen us through a spell in our history where we had no money to compete, now we do I say if he is willing to stay and bring in players of Pods, carzola, Monreal's quality let him stay and give him chance

Holmesy {Ed027's Note - Nope you have'nt he's a busy man

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I love your optimism Holmesy

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Ed, now most of us are registered having to use our email address. Can you send us emails so we don't miss it.

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20 Feb 2013 16:38:40
ed002 any chance you can start leaking a bit of info on what is happening at the club.

sorry for being annoying {Ed002's Note - I will write something up when I get some time.}

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Charlie, you must be a nightmare at xmas

1404

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He probably use to make little holes in the wrapping paper to see what was inside.

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A+ for persistance CC
F for Ed002
please release this secret

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20 Feb 2013 16:36:20
{Ed027's Note - Hey guys, there's been a lot of talk of posts not being posted, and Ed's being selective, but i've found out many of you expect your post to come up at the top of the page, but when it is left for another ed, the post could take a few hours for the ed to get round too it, so all posts are sorted out on the site in order of time, so you will have to check up on your post by looking for the time it was poted in to us, also if you have a sign off, you could just search it in the function on the top right, and make sure if your post has or has'nt been posted
Thanks for your time.}

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Some of my posts have not been posted and 10 minutes down the line there's another post virtually word for word - edd sort your act out and be fair to all real arsenal fans and less bias towards your buddies

disgruntled gunner

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20 Feb 2013 14:52:48
ed002 quick question.

with the way things are on the pitch do you expect this will speed up any changes we may expect at the club.

thanks {Ed002's Note - No, I don't see a couple of poor results impacting the big scheme of things.}

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20 Feb 2013 16:02:39
First of all we must keep CL place to attract top players next season.
I really want 4-5 topp players such as Jovetic, Fellaini, Hummels, Gotze, Capoue, Lewandovski. Let´s give Shezzy a chance with a good defence? Decide witch two centerbacks to play! We need confidence let the players know there are first team players and let the bench fight there way in. Do something about all the injurys please same thing every year.

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20 Feb 2013 16:36:08
You ain't guna win the league with a goalkeeper that thinks he's the best in the world when he aint. everygame he makes massive mistakes. why do people rate him? can't punch can't catch misses corners and can't kick the ball to anyone. 1-0 down against liverpool and he tried to back hill it with suarez that close to nicking the ball off him Sat againsnt blackburn why did he palm it straight to a blackburn player who then scored. munich 2nd goal his fault again, don't dislike him as person but if he stayed he would have to be no 2

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We've had CL for a long long time and no big name players have come to us. We don't sign big name players, never have and never will.

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20 Feb 2013 15:51:44
Just wanted to bring this up the page a bit, there was mention of a poll re AW out, not sure where that was CC?

Anyhow, there is a poll in the national rag (with 3 letters) online today which has asked this question, at the moment from over 12,000 votes it is

54% Want him out
46% Don't

so a lot closer than you suggest.

I at the moment have seen enough, however can not see an immediate perfect replacement, I want someone with AFC blood, with passion for the club, preferably British, but someone who the players will respect. As this person does not exsist I really think we need to back AW to the end of the season at least, but I agree he is making it hard for us with his arrogant smug ways.

Maybe he should stop doing interviews for a while, or just ignore questions and say 'next'.

Who knows, all I know is that we showed that we have some truly brilliant football players, it's just that some of them just seem to be lost tactically and yes we have to blame AW for that.

337

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337 I gave the info as it was printed, polls do go up and down.

at he end of the day 2 years a go he would of won it hands down.

he does not have the support he use to have hence the reason he is under pressure.

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Arsenal blood
Players will instantly respect
Sorry not British
Experience Zero but the way things are I'd take the gamble

= Patrick Vieira

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Paul, you can not send a manager with zero experience in to a lower league club, let alone a huge global club like ours. Viera would have made a great number 2 a few seasons back but unfortunately he has gone over to the dark side!
TH14 would be the perfect no2 but we need a tactically experienced manager.

337

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Paul, I don't think Vieira would take it or any managerial job he's well paid at City and also does media work on TV at times.

But I still love Vieira's qoute a while back when he said "Adams, Keown, Winterburn and Parlour weren't as good with the ball as the current players, but they put their head where others won't even put feet. "

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20 Feb 2013 15:31:36
there does not seem to be desire or hunger at the club. from top to bottom every one just seems to be content with the fact that we are slipping further and further behind every season. the players don't seem motivated the board don't care and the manager thinks everything is all right. what sort of message did it send to our squad when we sold the leagues top goal scorer and club captain to our biggest rival. what world class talent are we going to attract when we sell our best player every season. I don't know if wenger should stay or go but I do know that something needs to change. I feel that gazidis should go the fact that we have let so many contracts run into there final year is unacceptable. I think that we need someone like david dien that can say to wenger this is not working or that is not right because without someone you respect telling you that you're wrong you're going to make the same mistakes again and again. and that is exactly what has been happenig in the last five or six years

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20 Feb 2013 15:24:45
The big problem we have with Wenger, is where else would he go?CFC, MUFC, THFC, BFC, RMFC, LFC, that's why he won't leave, what state will he leave the club in, for the next manager to take over from, its clear the board want him to stay, but he will move on at some point, maybe to coach at national level, but he is not fancied as a club coach, at the bigclubs any more, MCFC, PSG, you ask yourself where would he go, or where can he go, stuck with him i'm afraid. All seeing Gooner.

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20 Feb 2013 15:23:09
"Arsene Wenger has spoke about how his team haven't been together for that long. Well, Bayern finished second last year, they spent �63m on Dante, Shaqiri, Mandzuckic and Martinez. plus some addtional players. They were fine last night. They're dominating their league and they just turned us over. If you have intent, there are good players. None of those were out of our range. Bayern are sustainable, but get this, they're ambitious with a lower wage bill than ours. "

That. Is. All.

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20 Feb 2013 15:21:21
Thought one of the reasons Gaurdiola left Barca was so he could build his own team, looks like he's inherited another great ready built side.

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Very true. We won't know Guardiolas full managerial credentials until he goes to a club where there is no or little foundation.

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20 Feb 2013 15:09:09
Are we as Arsenal fans spoilt, are we arrogant to think that our club should always be challenging for top honours? After all only one team can win the Champions League or Premeir league!

Well no. We as fans are very patient and supportive of the club we love, anyone who was at the Emirates last night would have seen that. We are just sick of a club lying to us and a manager who is an absolute control freak it is almost bordering on a dictatorship.

We have all heard stories of Wenger micro managing ever aspect of the club from the training ground drills to travel arrangements. This is too much responsibility for one man and the pressure looks as if it is starting to break the once great manger of our club, who's legacy is now in serious danger.

Wenger cannot or will not delegate responsibility.

Wenger cannot construct a defense.

Wenger cannot coach tactical awareness or defensive organisation.

Wenger cannot compete in a competative transfer market.

If these facts are so evident to every pundit and die hard Arsenal fan then why has someone from within the club not taken responsibility off Wenger and let him do what he is good at.

Ferguson love him or hate him has successfully delegated most of the responsibilities to trusted coaches and club officals, so he can concertrate on the more important issues of winning football matches. Man United keep ex players such as Bobby Charlton around to inspire all the young players and give the club depth and history.

We declined Patrick Vieira, Bergkamp is coaching at Ajax, Adams was rejected as a coach. the list is endless! Steve Bould and a few others i. e. Liam Brady have a small input but not enough to really make a differance.

My club is falling into mediocrity, I as well as you fellow readers are powerless to stop it. We have been kept on the precipice for the last 8 years because we are not good enough to challenge for the top honours but are not bad enough for a full scale protest. They give us just enough, tell us just enough lies, spend just enough of our season ticket money on new players to keep us from banging on the Emirates doors and demanding a hefty chunk of our hard earned wages back.

Wenger has tried to construct a team built on youth, this was done not for the club, not for the new stadium, not for the fans but for his own ego. Wenger can take the praise of a win, loves the plaudits of being a revolutionary to the English game but cannot answer a poor reporter's honest assessment of why his team is underperforming. The players have been brought and moulded by him, his infuence is such that only he can be blamed for the lack of success at our club.

I fear for the future as it appears he is unsackable, and will try to instill fear with statements such as 'You will miss me when i'm gone', well I fear the absolute power given to Wenger has absolutely corrupted his views on what Arsenal Footbal Club stands for, and fear that like another famous dictator his rein will end with a statue being pulled down close to N5.

There is still time to change, for this team to grow and improve, we need him to listen to people with valid ideas and delegate reponsibility to those who are better equipped than he is to make decisions on the factors that are hurting this club, some will see this as a hyperbole but when I see fans leaving a home match after just 19 mins, it makes me question how many fans are still happy with the current situation.

Pinchy the Gooner

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Great post. I agree with everything you say. I love Wenger but he needs to start listening to these sort of comments. Hope he reads your post!

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Briliant post. spot on
And before all the look at what he's done for the club and wenger knows best brigade speak up remember Brian Clough won the European cup twice with forrest and them got them relegated.

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Great post pinchy!

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20 Feb 2013 14:47:36
Its now not a matter of if Wenger goes, but when. He is losing face in the eyes of the football establishment, and is only now an atraction for frugale boards, directors and owners. His C, V. has a big blot on it, as regards winning trophies, and his ability to rebuild teams, 8 seasons of rebuilding, and nothing to show for it, oh! sorry just money ripped from the pockets of the loyal supporters, if he had any respect for Arsenal F, C, he would fall on his sword, but no he wants to earn every penny he can before leaving.

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20 Feb 2013 14:40:11
My Op:Banter.

Some off our players just anit cutting it, I would have played the likes of Gnarby, Elsfield who want to play for our club and will do anything to get in our squad.

I've had enough of Diaby! Frimpong's a much better player then him.

I still don't understand, how we played pacey Theo up top by his self. Theo should have played wide left running at Lamb all game to keep him back in his own half. Giroud should have started and Ramsey should have been on the bench.

We should play 5 at the back 2cdms 2wingers and Giroud up top. (only striker)
In fearie we should be rock solid with bodies behind the ball. Wilshere in the heart leading the team with speedy Theo and amazing Pod on the wings charging back and forth. Giroud should stay up top all the time apart from set pieces and etc.

D

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Playing 5 at the back really wouldn't work for us, it's quality, not quantity we need.

Right now, I'd rather Ignasi Miquel in over Merts, and that's a big call considering I really like PM4, but his recent performances have been dire.

As for Frimmy, he may want to be part of arsenal, and he may be a decent prospect, but he's not better than Diaby, at best he's a loveable chav.
That's not to say Diaby is a world beater.

Assuming Gibbs Won't be around for the return leg, a back four of Sagna, Koscielny, Vermalen and Meade, would be best for me, just because we need some speed out at full back To deal with Muller and Ribery.

Then Arteta, Wilshere in midfield with AOC infront.

Theo right, Poldi left and Giroud right.



I know it sounds mad to leave Santi out, but there's three thoughts behind it.

A: AOC plays his best in the centre, and as he showed against AC Milan, he can really cause havoc with pace and drive in the middle, him and jack driving at The immobile Schweinstiger and Martinez could cripple Bayern.

B: Santi is tired, and needs that rest, bringing him on around the 60 minute nark, against a tiring midfield and defence, to play those little through balls and threaded passes, could change the game.

C: Santi is the least physical of our mids, and Bayern can bully him off the ball.

The idea of that set up, is just all out attack, if we can frustrate them and make them accumulate silly bookings, making mistakes hopefully we can nick an early goal.

Blitz spirit guys.

Last time a bunch if Germans came to London, and caused trouble, we went back and ruined thier parade.


D

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20 Feb 2013 14:07:47
Why does Wenger not want to break the Arsenal pay structure to sign world class players, but is more than happy to take 150 grand a week for himself.

HRF

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Does your boss earn more than you?

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How do people not see that he's running things more than just the footballing side of the business to justify his greater pay?
how is it that when things go south for us, it's Wenger's neck first on the chopping block?
how is it that no one questions the people willing to pay him in gold when all he spends is peanuts for monkeys?

not an Arsene fanatic, but it riles me up when people start to needlessly question a manager, regardless if he's an Arsenal manager or not, in aspects not related to kicking the ball about on the pitch.

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NoMikeDexter, may I ask what you're on about?

Arsene Wenger had a massive hand in appointing the board, and Kroenke, and directing the Emirates build. It has been well-documented for years that he controls everything. There may be occasions where Gazidis steps in, sure, and messes things up, sure, but it is mostly Arsene.

Firstly let me just say that any manager is the one to blame unless they can prove in no uncertain terms that despite them being in control, it is someone else's fault things went south. Otherwise, the manager is the one who should be held accountable in all forms of business, including football. That's the first place to look. The only key difference between football and the rest of life is that players do the dirty work and you often get players paid more than the manager. So the question of 'does your boss get paid less than you?' or whatever, really is meaningless. When there are top players we could afford, not being signed, because Wenger thinks paying a sub the same as paying an RVP is sensible, questions need to be asked. And when he won't even go as high as his own wage. well, what does that tell you? It tells you that he thinks he is the single most important thing at the club, and sadly, he is wrong. The players are as important. More to the point, a good club does what it can to sign and pay good players what they want/market rates - except us.

We have a wage bill equal to uniteds. But we don't have any Rooneys on £200k do we? Or RVPs on £180k for example do we? We don't have players as good as Nani providing squad depth do we? We don't have Jones, Rio, Vidic, Smalling, Evans who all perform as capably as each other when called upon do we?

We don't have young players like Welbeck on £15k playing for his right to a higher wage do we? No. Instead we have a Jenkinson, who can't get game times no matter WHAT, on £32k and nothing to play for.

We have a manager who tries one absurd idea after another, exclusively, whilst turning his back on sensible mixes. So he ether wants a team of tiny mids, so he does that for a bit. Then he wants a defence of washed up vets so he tries that for a bit. Then he tries playing forwards as wide players so he did that for a few years. Then it was was all about youth and that didn't work. Now he's buying second, third or fourth best of british and that isn't working either.

The funny thing is, if you look at the problems we had 6 years ago, then the year after, and the year after, all the way until next summer, every single appraisal document would conclude in the same way. Our problems are on repeat and one man alone has overseen this year in year out with absolutely no fear of discipline or accountability, just free reign to try things in his own world while we get weaker and simultaneously other teams get stronger.

Wenger is past it on every level. If there was a checklist of jobs, and a box to tick out of yes or no by it (has it been completed successfully) every single one would be ticked no.

BUT. because the club is growing somehow, it's all ok.

I don't want the club to grow one iota more if it means another step in the direction of becoming americanised where you don't go to 'support your team' you go to 'watch some sport'. lifeless, soulless spectating is where we're headed these days.

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Power lies with those who hold the bags marked with the dollar/pound/euro sign. that's just how things be. no money = no actual power.
if Wenger's running the circus then either he own the clubs, which he doesn't, or the guy whose money's at stake let's him run it.

i'm not contesting Wenger's level of control, i'm just questioning people as to where that power comes from. if the board/kroenke are the only people who can boot Arsene out but don't do so despite poor results year over year or awful tranfer + contract judgements, etc. what does that tell you?

as regards to the Americanisation, I mentioned this a year or two ago about how I think they really went about it wrong at Arsenal with the commercialisation. every brand, be it McDonald's, Apple or even Man Utd, has to first make a good product and then market it out like a brothel-worker. they tried doing it the other way round and it's failed big time. the end-product was and is inevitable at a point, but it back-fired in this instance.

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20 Feb 2013 14:06:18
Can everybody stop moaning about wenger and how bad we are at the moment atleast were not liverpool ha


afc goon

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Can see your point atleast we've got good players and a well run club and a great youth policy what have liverpool got ageing players no youth policy, no direction but down, no money, no european football and their best player is a cheat so when you put it that way we are in a great position for the future and they are in a bad position with no future


GOOONER

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Liverpool have at least stabilized.

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Think Liverpool have won the Fa Cup, league cup, Champions league and a super cup since we last won a trophy.

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If we don't make top four we could quickly head in that direction once your out it will be even harder for us to get players to join. The situation already reminds me of Benitez's last season or so good players leaving defeat after defeat poor cup runs. Desperate for that not to happen to us praying we make top 4

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I would love for players to leave. its not like we have any world class players that other clubs want.

the english lads aside. who won't go. they can have everybody else.

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20 Feb 2013 13:57:59
Dein in. Hill-wood out. That's eds big secret {Ed002's Note - I would think you will see Dein in a senior official capacity at the FA soon rather than at the club.}

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20 Feb 2013 13:57:46
we will never attract a top manager with silent stan and ivan running our club

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There's planty of managers who'd love a crack at the Arsenal Job. Perfect time to take the job. Its only harder to follow if the club is winning trophies.

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20 Feb 2013 13:53:02
Hi all,
This is my first post on the Arsenal forum, I am a United fan but really need to get something off my chest.

Firstly what is with all the rubbish in the papers about Arsenal being 'outclassed'? I'm sorry but this is utter rubbish and I am sure I'm not wrong here.

I saw 4 (in the main) very fortunate goals last night and a game of two halves. Barren were terrible for 10 minutes and scored a goal which although the finish of which was good the cross was utter sack! They then get a second through poor defending, an Arsenal mistake rather than Bayern superior class.

The second half Arsenal dominated but even there goal was fortunate in that firstly it should have been a corner and secondly Neuer was in (pardon the pun) no mans land!

The less said about the third Bayern goal the better but again pure luck and good fortune.

I am so tired of hearing Wenger getting slated its making me want to support Arsenal on a perm basis. All these critics are naive and the knee jerk reactions are immature.

Bayern were average last night and poised very very little going forward, the only players of theirs that really stood out for me were the two full backs, Schweinstiger and Martinez. The German even misses the return leg.

I think Arsenal can overcome this deficit and I really will pray they do.
Good luck Arsenal, because after all that's all you need here, a little bit of luck (just like Bayern had) and you are right back in this.

PJ

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I could not agree more.

Up to the first goal we were the better team, then it was very difficult as Bayern we able to sit back and all 4 goals had significant elements of luck. The problem is that when things are going for you luck seems to be on your side.

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Good to see someone put football over club rivalries, but in all fairness, we were rubbish.
it's not like we were complete garbage, but the kinda stature and style that we're used to seeing the club play in recent years is fading away and the frustration is getting to the fans.

people had the game figured out before the whistle went, but we still scored a cheap goal against a side that hadn't conceded this year, just missed an equaliser and all this without our best 11 out there. it's highly unlikely we'll win now, but the rubbishty part about this team is that you can't trust them to do or not do anything. one can dream.

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Up to the first goal we were the better team. they scored the first goal after 7 minutes

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The 2nd goal was real killer and the one that most annoyed me. Just such sloppy defending a real gift. Nobody attacking the ball when it come in nobody taking charge of their so called zones. Sczezny was also to blame and he just plamed it straight to Mulluer. O. k we were 1-0 early but you still in the game at that point so it so annoying to lose a 2nd goal from simple mistakes like that. It is failing to the basics right that cost Arsenal time and time again.

Bayern I though were a very well drilled side and disiplined but I did not think they were that spectacular and did not as ouclass us much as others make out we just let them take control in that first half and in 2nd half they could afford to sit back then with that lead.

Efficent team but far from unbeatable.

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I agree with the principle, and maybe us Arsenal fans (along with the media) can be over-critical, but the key thing you pointed out here is:

"Arsenal mistake rather than Bayern superior class"

I was not massively impressed with Bayern on a technical level, although they were very efficient and assertive. The thing that riles many fans is that we simply do not show the 'class' that we supposedly have - it was our utter lack of it that lost us the game to a strong but not outstanding team. (for the record I highly rate Bayern, but even last night they weren't at their best)

we do have some great players who our club persistently tell us to have faith in, but the team never really delivers over the full course of a season. for me at least, that is the issue to be taken from this tie - not Bayern's 'domination', but our insufficiency. and I must say I think it's more than 'luck' - Bayern went into this tie looking organised and as if they had studied our game. it seems to me that we always assume we are technically strong enough to win any game and have very little to fall back on when that is not the case.

I don't like whinging, but for me these criticisms of our team have some grounding. The criticisms of Wenger are of course quite misdirected but we have to be honest with ourselves when we just aren't playing well enough, particularly when it has been happening for some time and not really changing.

Oleg Maputo

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20 Feb 2013 15:09:35
dude. what are u talking?
4 unfortunate goals?
Bayern were fabulous at emirates. not at alianz arena?
ridiculous. we were outclassed. lahm on the right. ribery on the left.
the game was played in our half.
nonsense.
we scored a goal. which was not even a corner.
first half saw 1 goal attempt all 45 mts.
what on earth were you watching?

If you still believe we were not outclassed.
wait untill may 13. you can see us coming hammerd by bayern at their home ground.

we were unable to retain possession in first half. through out.
4 yeallow cards in one half?.
arteta and carzola didn't even touched the ball.

nonsense. only one decent run by walcot. saw an attack by arsenal.
even wenger reveled in post match conference. we were outclassed by a german champion.

I don't know what are you talking.
apart from wilshere. no one would walk into any top clubs of europe. may be walcot also.
our defence were awful.

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20 Feb 2013 17:22:45
For the united fan. Wondering if you would have stuck with ferg if he has gone trophyless for8 seasons in a row?

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Incredible it takes one of their fans to be objective.

Anyone who thinks we were played off the pitch has no idea.

Giroud equalizes and today this board is prob talking about winning the CL

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20 Feb 2013 13:50:41
the last time we had a back 5 was in 2006.

the last leader we had in the back 4 was sol campbell.

this was the start of wengers demise at the club.

the last powerful midfielder we had at arsenal was paddy vierra and gliberto silva. they were never replaced. they learned the arsenal way of players like adams, keown, parlour, dixon, winterburn, bould. once the core of the 2004 squad were sold we never had any players with the winning arsenal mentality.

wenger has never built a winning team of his own back, there was all ways a smell of george grahams players around any winning team he had.

we bought a better quality of player up untill 2004.

why won't wenger buy a better quality of player?

no 1 can tell me we don't have any money?

why did he not buy a dm in january,, there was loads of quality players that would of made a difference.

we could of offered �25-30 for de-rossi,, we have the money in the bank?not cup tied.

why did he not offer �15 mill for capoue we have the money in the bank. not cup tied.

why did we not go for jevotic,, offer �25 mill we have the money in the bank. not cup tied.

so what if we pay over the top once in 10 years we have the money in the bank.

why has there been yet again no investment in the 1st team squad.

why are we told we are going to sign players and yet we never sign any 1.

do people believe the decisions that are being made at the moment the right 1s?

people need to start supporting the badge and not wenger.

its time to go arsene, thanks for everything but its time to go.

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Did you ever take into account a players wishes of joining another team mid season? its not like they are poultry you know.

they need house, cars, check out the neighborhood for some skin. its a difficult thing being rich.

saying that there's a reason for everything and its not arsene wenger. he's not the most evil man on the planet. try to calm down.

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"wenger has never built a winning team of his own back, there was all ways a smell of george grahams players around any winning team he had. "

Really?
Lehmann
Lauren Toure Campbell Cole Ljungberg Gilberto Vieira Pires Bergkamp Henry

Which one of them did Graham sign? Bergkamp and Cole were the only non Wenger signings

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A player will go if you pay him the going rate.

wengers policy's are not working,, you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

we pay the prices for better quality players.

i am realist, but you can't tell the footballing policy's over the last 5 years have been the right 1s.

too many bad average players bought.

hi wages given to average players.

squillachi been given a contract for £55k a week.

spending all most £12mill on signing gervinho.

letting arshavin sit on the subs bench for all most 3 years paying him £75k a week.

who is making these decisions lakerville?

i speak my mind, if you don't like my posts then don't read them.

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Poly half of them had grahams players around them at the club.
players like adams keown bould winterburn, dixon seamen all played around most of those boys.
once we lost the team of 2004 was the last decent arsenal team.

what have we done since 2005.
the 2006 cl final was the last legs of the invincibles.

do you call the last 8 years progress.

there has been no investment the last 10 years,, what team has wenger put out the last 8 years that has come close to winning any thing.

he could not even motivate the team to beat birminghan in the the league cup.

his methods have failed for far too long now, he has been found out.
he will never make it big at a big club.

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Never make it at a big club? if we sack him. madrid will sack mourinho tomorrow and give wenger the job. or how about PSG or how about chelsea or how about city.

we know wenger is a great manager. however I don't blame him for everything.

the scouts look at players and recommend them. then he signs them. its not like he goes for all the games to see squillachi personally.

yes we have signed a lot of garbage but he was advised. he did not advise to sign the player.

like fergie when he bought veron or bebe or macheda and so on and on and on.

unfortunately we have sold our best players so all the junk stands out. we can't add more junk, let's clear the trash before buying more. let's give him till this summer. if you see nothing by end of july. ask for his head and I will join you. but not now. not when we have 12 odd games to go. and stop being soo frustrated.

its not like we were winning the champions league. its good we lost. its good wenger saw the gap in quality. we can only stress this. get rid of him and get who exactly?

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I am not so sure any of the world's best clubs would hand Wenger the job if he were sacked tomorrow.

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20 Feb 2013 13:34:18
Can someone tell me have we started last night line up before in any match. Just curious if we hadn't why we did it against the best team we faced this season.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

Line up depend on players available at your disposal at that time

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My thoughts exactly. Theo up front when it's been tried 3 times all season to mixed results. How many times did we send long balls up to Theo and we just turned over possession? Too many. Our best line up all season has been Podolski, Giroud and Theo up front, Santi and Jack as advanced midfielders and one midfielder holding. Our line up yesterday was so stupid. Podolski Theo and Ramsey up front, Santi Jack and Arteta in the middle, with both Jack and Arteta clearly asked to play as DMs. what a pathetic formation choice. The only times we have looked anywhere near our best this season have been when Santi and Jack are both playing in forward attacking mid roles and we have Pod, Gir and Theo L, M and are forwards respectively. It was so obvious in the first half Jack had been told to sit right back. Hang on, I thought Wenger said around xmas that was Ramsey's new position?

Do not know what Wenger was thinking. May as well have started with Gervinho up front and Squid in defence, just another pointless formation with the wrong set of instructions. We should have set up with GK, RB, CB, CB, LB, Arteta OR Ramsey DM (rigid DM), then Jack and Santi further up, with 3 forwards to play with. in possession this would be 4132 - what Spurs do with Parker. It's what City did to win the FA Cup. Instead we made our best midfielder play almost as a CB, our worst midfielder play at RW? and our most diminutive player of the lot was a target man. It was laughable.

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20 Feb 2013 13:31:55
Think it's time to go Wenger! But for who?

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20 Feb 2013 13:29:52
There are rumours floating around of AW being replaced. Even if there was some substance to this, why would a manager want to come to a club who's board puts finances before results?

Also, the problem with Stan Kroenke is that he will not spend but maximise cash reserves and earnings so that share prices are maximised for when he sells out.
I would be all for Usmanov taking over. He can't be worse, can he?

Believable3 Unbelievable1

Board is putting finances first because they think the FFP will win us trophies.

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Share prices work on the value of the club and without champions league and low sponsership deals he is not going to make a significant return to what he will get now and what he will get in 5 years.

if he is a businessman he will take his money and FO

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20 Feb 2013 13:25:49
There have been many enthralling questions through the history of time.
Where is the Ark of the Covenent?
What happened to Lord Lucan?
Did we really land on the moon?
Who is to blame Wenger or the board?

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Both because if Wenger is the boards fall guy, by which I mean if the money isn't really there to spend then Wenger should go to the board and say I can't do the job under these conditions and give them an ultimatum (which I doubt he'll do because he earns to much money). If the board is really offering Wenger the money to spend and he won't then thay should get someone who will.

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Wenger. He dictates all at the club.

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20 Feb 2013 15:13:01
I hardly think its a matter of Wenger's salary. He has been offered much more by other clubs in the past. There is much you can gripe about, but his salary is really irrelevant.

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20 Feb 2013 13:14:52
question for every 1 that signs off.


are we stronger than last year?

would we stronger if we made no signings in the summer but kept rvp and song?

i do not see any progress on last year?

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20 Feb 2013 13:55:51
Missed RVP and his finishing. We've created so many chances this season but haven't put them away. If Giroud chance had fallen to RVP at 1-2 it would have been 2-2 even though Giroud was a bit unlucky with his shot but he always misses so many oppertunities to score. But still think if we'd offered RVP �250k a week and a war chest of �100m he'd have still left.

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Are we stronger? hell yes!
are we better? of course not.

how are we stronger then, you ask? last year, we had no Wilshere.

last year we had the dutch person to kick 'em in, but we've still scored more this year already without him.
Song was good going forward but he was a liability in defence.

it's our defence and back-line that needs work more than anything.
our game lacked any form of hustle last season and so it does now.

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Our team is about the same in my view. Wilshere is exceptional but vanpersie won us games single handed. We miss song badly as now we just have arteta who passes the ball sideways 9 times out of 10.

Last year LK was fantastic in defence and this year mertesacker and TV are a liability.

Our first 11 could beat a top team last year. This year we haven't beaten anyone above us (except spurs)

We are in a slow decline

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20 Feb 2013 13:04:34
Hey all,

tough result yesterday but the team showed fight and i'm proud of that, i'll take the loss like a man we got outplayed by a better team.

i won't even try to get into the hierarchy of the club because nobody on the outside actually knows what goes on behind closed doors, but from watching the game last night, does anyone else agree that we are not playing the correct formation according to the players we have?

for example, playing walcott as a lone striker in a 4-3-3? yes he can finish and has great pace but he's not going to win the physical battle for us. and I feel like we are wasting podolski out on the left wing even though he is still productive.

from watching other teams attack us, they seem to have acres of space in midfield because we only have 3 midfielders and carzola isn't a good defender. just look at the kroos goal, nobody within 10 meters of him.

i just feel like we do not have the technical players needed to play the 4-3-3 and would prob be better suited to a more basic 4-4-2 with wilshere and either arteta or diaby sitting deep and helping out the back 4. play walcott up front with either giroud or podolski and make it harder for teams to break us down. I know wenger has forgotten more about football than I have learned but I just thought I would share my 2 cents. thoughts and opinions please.

here's to hoping we can make top 4 we need it!

Believable6 Unbelievable1

Yes I still want us to finish in top 4 for many reasons.

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20 Feb 2013 13:04:32
we need a fresh start from top to bottom.

we need an owner that wants to be a success on the pitch.

i believe usmanov is that man. he can't be any worse than kroenke, he is an arsenal supporter.

wenger does not agree with usmanov's policy's, he will never be a manager under usmanov.

this is why wenger has staid at arsenal, he agrees with the way the club is being run,, this is why he will never be under pressure from kroenke.

arsene did not leave arsenal when david dein left because he did not agree with dein.

you will never see wenger-dein-usmanov as a team at arsenal.

Believable1 Unbelievable1

I don't think Dein works for Usmanov either now didn't he leave red and white holdings?

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Why do you feel the need to jump the gun on every analysis.

Just because Arsene said this is the best team he has coached does not mean its true. there is a motive behind it.

If he says that the owners are fine like fergie says of the blazers doesn't mean its true. its just that they have the clubs best interest in mind.

Wenger would not be able to control whoever buys the club. he does not have soo much power. but he says the right things just as Dein has and some other prominent figures in the industry.

you can't destabilize a club mid season nor when you have no power to do it.

Think of it this way. you have a very noisy and powerful neighbour. will you try to oust him alone? will you be successful?

or will you wait for all the other neighbours before you can do it the right way. patience is key in life for most decisions. sometimes it also applies to football.

we have been negative, let's give it a rest and get thru this season and think of the summer.

the champions league is gone. we have the league to worry about and let's bank on that 4th spot.

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20 Feb 2013 13:02:14
I am must say that I am a bit suprised about all the negativity after last nights game. We where out played no question about it and they were 1st on almost all the second and third balls in the first half but how can people not have seen this comming? Did they execute their chances better then us and did they have a lot more chances come the final whistle? Yes the did. However this decline has been going on for some time now. We have been getting slowly and slowly worse over the last few years. We lost in the cups against crap teams and some people seem to expect us to win against Bayern Munich. I really don't get it.

On the teams effort last night:
I liked how the team really faught for it, putting in very hard tackles to wake everybody up and it was a fighting spirit until the end. We are simply not good enough to compete at against the top teams this season. That is how it is and the record speaks for itself. To me the sadest player on the pitch nowadays is not everyones favorite bashing subject (Ramsey), which I have had some hard times with as well but he actually played well. The player that stands out the most is our captain. What has happened to him. Last year we called him the Verminator now he just seems so off. He is no way near is old self. He comes in late, he makes bad decissions, he hesitates and is really not helping the team the way he used to. Something is very wrong and I do not know what the problem is but I do know that it is there. Sagna seems to have had his best days as a wingback, judging from this season but does a hell of a job as a central defender. I do not know where we are going but I am pretty sure that something needs to change because we are left behind the big clubs as it is right now.

/The swede

Believable4 Unbelievable0

Not just about last nights result, the Blackburn and Bradford results and our league position is the problem.

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20 Feb 2013 15:19:36
To be honest our league position is not much different from the last few seasons. Strong tail end of season run have got us back in the CL. As for the cups, we haven't exactly been showered in glory against any opposition over the last few years. Same old really.

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20 Feb 2013 12:56:50
Vermalen has been awful all season. We should strip him of the armband and give it to Jack who is a pure inspiration. The fans are not helping things either. you can hear a pin drop at the emirates. I blame this on high ticket prices meaning that only rich or higher middle class people attend.
Our attack is fine. we need a defence to go with it. Mert, Verm and Kos are simply not good enough. Sczeny is also having a bad season and I put he blame on him for two of the goals last night. Sagna is poor but as he broke his leg in service to us I think we should back him to return to form. we know he has it in him.
1 classy defensive Midfielder and two CB's is what's needed IMO and maybe a keeper

Either way let's get behind our struggling team and help them finish as high as poss in the prem so we can build for next season.

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Agree 100% with regards to Vermaelen, hasn't really hit the heights he set himself in his 1st season I believe.
Eman.

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I agree mate, but i'm not sure I would replace szczesny he's still very young. but perhaps bring in an experienced GK to compete and push him a little. I still say give him time I think he could flourish into a world class keeper.

i agree our defence is woeful but I think that's partly because the midfield doesn't get back to help out the back 4 and since song left we don't have any muscle in the back roughing people up and being physical so the back 4 is under constant pressure.

4th place here we come!

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20 Feb 2013 13:28:46
They should tear down that Verminator sign, the man is not a natural leader.

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I still believe that the entire defence would drastically improve if Wenger went back to his successful 4-4-2 formation with two powerful central midfield players protecting the back four. Last night Bayern played in such as system and it made them look so solid & difficult to break down. Would our keeper & defence looks so bad if the following midfield, in their prime, were protecting them: Ljeungberg, Vieira, Gilberto & Pires. They also need to abandon the personic zonal marking.

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I thought tha fans did get behind the team last night myself. Even when the players went off at half time 2 nil down from lower east stand we were shouting Arsenal Arsenal etc. not booing.
German fans were very noisy as usual.

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20 Feb 2013 12:56:08
80% of 7k people asked said wenger should go in the summer.

i would take that.

there would have to be an announcement from the club.

maybe the players will play for him for the rest of the season.

the club needs to make an announcement.

there is no where to hide now.

we need action.

Believable3 Unbelievable3

Where was the poll CC?

I'm so torn on this as I literally LOVE the man but the time for accountability is upon us and someone has to face the music although I more see it being at board level, but that's the romantic in me!

It hurts so much more when I spend 5k + on season tickets with my family and we ain't rich I can assure you!

You know you love football when it actually makes you want to cry.

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Agreed but also disagree, tell me who's better that WILL come to our struggling to stay in europe club?

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20 Feb 2013 15:21:44
Which poll was that? Wenger is not the problem. The board is.

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20 Feb 2013 12:52:11
I wish Wenger would learn from last night. Bayern were set out in a 4-4-2 formation, with the midfield quartet doubling up with the back four. They had some tall powerful players in their team.

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20 Feb 2013 12:43:51
i would like to take this opportunity to wish BRADFORD CITY the best of luck on sunday.

this should be been wengers last game as manager.

Believable4 Unbelievable4

Not that fussed TBH. More worried about Saturday's result against Villa. A week ago I thought it was a given now I'm not so sure.

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20 Feb 2013 12:24:46
so who would everyone want as the new manager?
I would want moruinho

watford gooner

Believable3 Unbelievable5

1. Mourinho
2. Moyes

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Anyone who can bring in players, spend the money, change our tactics and have a plan B

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Poyet

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1. Champagne Charlie

2. Malaga Gooner

3. Tony Soprano

BTW, only joking Charlie, keep up the campaign

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Di Canio is free - ha ha

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Mourinho would not come as he would not have the near unlimited funds to spend he has got at Teams Like Chelsea and Madrid. Mourinho is a short term manager he comes in spends a shed load wins a title or a Champions leaque then moves on to a new challange.

Although a good tactical manager I do not consider him a top level manager beacuse he has never left a long term legacy like Wenger and Ferguson have. It all about his personal CV and ego and just goes to where he has the best chance of success. The teams with the most money basically. He just does not fit in with the current Arsenal model unless the Arsenal model changed drastically.

Moyes is used to working to financial contraints but will he really adapt to the ethos at Arsenal and sign the right technical players we crave and our game demands. Yes we do need a few more physical players like he has currently at Everton, but at the top level you still need a high speed technical game to compete. Not sure Moyes is the ideal fit for us.

For me a better fit would be Laudrup or Martinez. Both look to play football in a simlar style but will hopefully be more adaptable than Wenger and less stubborn when needs must. Both have proven to do well in the transfer market for the limited budgets they have so with the extras funds at Arsenal they would have they should be able to attract the top palyers we need.

The crass in not always greener on the otherside. It is very difficult to compare managers anyway when they all all have totally different resources at their disposal.

I agree I think it is time for Wenger to move on as has he seems to have run out of ideas on how to turn things around and you can tell he is struggling emotionally with the pressure with every season not winning. Yes some of players he has bought have been big mistakes to say the least but quite a few have also let him down and not shown what they are capable of.

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How much funds did Mourinho have at Inter? {Ed027's Note - A lot because barca were happy to hand them a fat wod of cash and then a small player like Etoo

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Any chance barca will offer 40 million + Sanchez for gervinho


Watford gooner {Ed027's Note - :)

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Then what about porto?

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20 Feb 2013 12:23:36
If we had selected the following team in a 4-4-2 formation and abandoned the personic zonal marking system, we would have stood a far better chance of getting something out of the match:
Szczesny
Sagna Mertesacker Koscielny Vermaelen
Walcott Arteta Abu Diaby Cazorla
Wilshere
Giroud

During the summer window, we need to buy:
A keeper, A tall dominant centre back, Another left back to allow Gibbs to play in midfield, 2 tall powerful central midfield players & A quality striker.

I would sell/release:
Mannone, Fabianski, Squilacci, Santos, Rosicky, Denilson, Gervinho, Ramsey, Arteta (good player, but we need better), Arshavin, Bendtner & Djourou.

Wenger must revert to his successful fluid 4-4-2 formation, abandon zonal marking, allow Bould to train the team & get David Dein back on board.

Believable5 Unbelievable3

What on earth does 'personic' mean?

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20 Feb 2013 12:19:07
Edd are arsenal in talks with athletico Bilbao cb is he any good will he be an upgrade on mertesacker? {Ed027's Note - yes certainly a upgrade, and we are in talks, but my worry is that we will be blown away, as he's free, clubs will be giving silly wages

Believable4 Unbelievable0

20 Feb 2013 11:28:21
And what keeper do you think will look good with the way we defend {Ed027's Note - Begovic?, Cesar looks good and he plays for the worst club in the league

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20 Feb 2013 11:12:19
Looking at the goals and who was at fault:

1. Ramsey should have gotten out to kroos, Szcz maybe should have saved it. Lloris or De Gea would have. a Top GK and CDM needs to be bought in.

2. Mertesaker. Why and how did he let Van Buyten leave him like that. Needs to be gone in the summer with a top CB bought in.

3. Koscielney. Many he was worried about scoring another of his own goals. I liked him last season but has been poor this season. Also Vermaelen should have stopped the cross in the first place.


In the summer I'd like to see this '70 million' spent on:

1 world class GK = 20m (HAS to be Marc-Andr� ter Stegen)
1 world class CB = 20m (Hummels, Maybe Marquinhos if we wait a year)
1 world class RB = 10m (Van der Weil. Lost his way at PSG but will be great)
1 world class CDM = 20m (Wayanama, Capoue)

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20 Feb 2013 12:12:11
you need a striker. very must.

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20 Feb 2013 15:27:11
The defence collectively are appalling both in terms of personnel and tactics. Zonal marking simply does not work for these players.

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20 Feb 2013 11:12:03
Calm down people. We've still got 4th place to fight for.

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20 Feb 2013 11:10:00
ramsey played amazing last night got stuck in with his tackles that's what we need.

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20 Feb 2013 12:12:45
cant believe. how does he gets into arsenal team?
the weakest link. for me is ramsey.

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Unfortunately, he is a very ordinary player, not suited to a top four club. {Ed027's Note - stop pointing out players, the entire team bar Jack have been poor, not playing for their manager, none of them bar Jack would get into any of the top 6

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ED027 - I disagree. the following, from last night, would get into a top four clubs squad: Szczesny, Saga, Wilshere, Podoslski, Walcott & Cazorla.
Ramsey would not, he is simply not good enough. {Ed027's Note - i disagree with you, i'd have Degea Lloris Hart Cech over Shezza. i'd have Zabaleta, Rafael, Ivanovic, Walker over Sagna, Wilshere would as stated, i'd have David Silva, Hazard, Young, Bale, Lennon, Valencia, Nasri, Aguero, RVP, Rooney, Hernandez, Dzeko, Tevez, Mata, Ba, over Theo, Podolski, & Santi, of course in like for like changes

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20 Feb 2013 15:13:44
exactly ed. very true.
apart from wilshere. no one would be in any top club of europe.
we were hammerd last night at home.
i was shocked. no goal attempts from arsenal at home in first 40 mts.
we should not go to germany.
they wil ripp us at least by 4 goals for sure.

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20 Feb 2013 15:28:21
Ramsey has been poor this season partly because he has been played out of position. He is far more effective in the middle.

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20 Feb 2013 11:08:45
i feel so sorry for jack he was so tired there was one moment in the 80th min where he tryd to cross the ball but he just collasped, bayen were bullying him.

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20 Feb 2013 10:54:50
Hi all. I do not profess to be an AKB but I still had some faith in him, but last night, i'm done. the team looked absolute pish. Wenger expexts Jack to carry the team the way Henry and Fabregas would and its just not fair. i'm blaming the coaching full stop. the players we had last night should have given Bayern a game but did nothing. In fact the way Bayern played I swear we were watching the old Invincibles team.
wenger should accept its not working. let steve bould do his job and get the whole team defending and 'properly' defending too.
Wenger has another season at the end of this but I think the board should act. We all want Klopp and guardiola etc but last night Juup Heynckes looked cool as a cucumber has a strong record, his team really impressed me and the power, relentless energy and the one thing we lacked last night, Fight.
Its just getting sad seeing Wenger slip, I couldn't believe he just walked off and didn't shake Heynckes hand after the whistle, I hope he did do out of the camera view because it makes the man And arsenal look unsporting and bad losers (iam a bad loser), he truely cares and if you don't see that he cares you are blind, i'm just hoping he realises he is part of the problem and is prepared to do something about it.
ally

Believable3 Unbelievable0

20 Feb 2013 10:47:26
There are a few things I would like to see.

1 ) wenger go to madrid and see if his system works with better players.

2) get rid of the junk we currently have

3) Need a owner who gives a crap

4) we the fans need to remind the manager about his quality signings. 3-1 to bayern at home should rile him up.

The best way to attack is to attack the heart.

He has been doing that to us for years, its time to show him we can do it too.

get behind the team, however when we have the opportunity, after games or if we are leading by some margin and the game is ours that's the best time to say so.

Believable2 Unbelievable1

20 Feb 2013 10:43:05
Why is everyone on such a downer?

Believable2 Unbelievable6

Where would you like me to start

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So many neggy norris's all over the web today. bore off and support your team is all I say!

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We're not on a downer. we are just facing the obvious fact that we are just not good enough anymore.

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I wish I lived in the world where all these "what's all the fuss about - support your team" people lived, sounds like a great place.

Maybe they don't spend £1000 per head year in year out to stand in the cold and be in the 10% minority at the ground who DO sing and SUPPORT the manager and the team without fail but privately accept we are DEPLETED, LACKLUSTRE and generally found wanting in almost every position against opposition at every level - league, championship, premiership and Champions League!

Not good enough.

I will NEVER say Wenger Out, he is the best thing that has ever happened to us but if he decided to go then I could accept it. If he doesn't then there has to be someone higher who accepts responsibility for our pitiful decline!

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20 Feb 2013 10:42:34
Time for Wenger to be replaced.
We lost to Bradford in the League Cup.
We lost at home to Blackburn in the F A Cup.
We are 5th in the Premiership, more likely to be caught by Everton & Liverpool, than finish top 4.

Zonal marking is a joke
The formations he use are a joke
The use of too many small technical players in the most physical league is a joke.
Not listening to the likes of Bould & Brady is a joke.
His demeanour on the bench is a joke.
His recent press outburst a joke.
His so called 'socialist' wage policy a joke.

Believable7 Unbelievable5

20 Feb 2013 10:33:57
Today I feel ashamed and embarrassed to be an Arsenal supporter. Sometimes I just sit there and ask God, 'why did you bestow this team upon me'

Believable4 Unbelievable5

Follow a different team then!
We need fans that will support the Arsenal through the bad times and the good!

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Don't push me fella. I will go and support another team.

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20 Feb 2013 10:29:29
Hello Ed and fellow Gooners for me last night was expected, I did forecast 3-1 not because I wanted that result but I knew Bayern would be too good for us, because they are a quality side, our complete lack of tempo in our game, our predictability, you can see us coming a mile off, our defending is woeful, but apart from Jack and a couple off players being played out of position, that team/squad is not just good enough
A squad assembled by AW, who has manager takes the ultimate responsibility for what happens on that pitch. Kroenke or Ivan does not tell AW to play Podolski out of position, to pay6m for the BFG, to keep faith with injury prone players and when they are fit too scared to use them. Totally ignore promising youngsters.
We have lost this seasons to sides that cover the full spectrum of domestic and European club football, that alone speaks volumes of what is happening at managerial level at our club.
I posted a couple of days back that we should give AW the next five games, but I am finding it hard to even give him that.
Just two more things I like to say
Firstly, fantastic support last night the crowd were great
Secondly, Jack Wilshere,. you are the b******* son.
Thanks for the site Ed
Heybridge Gooner

Believable2 Unbelievable4

20 Feb 2013 10:21:58
Can't speak German but the Munich banner I assumed read �63 is f###ing joke, they want to pay up �123 which Arsenal charge up to for last night.

There a top top side who are just awsome.

Were miles behind them in all areas and I really didn't have much hope for this tie.

As for Arsenal tactics did not understand why we played long ball at times aimed at Walcott. TV5 was simply crap on the left with Podolski who's pace was showed up for me.

TV5 is just to quiet to be captain and was good to see Wilshere give him some bollocking during the game.

Out of all the team that started last night Wilshere and Walcott stay for the long term I couldn't care less if all the others left. Cazorla started well at the start of season but his performance have gone down hill perhaps since Wilshere has come back. Lately he just seems to hide during matches, It's no excuse for me that some might say he played on the right last night.

Please let's invest and do away with this ticka tacka passing style which is becoming very boring and just is not working in the EPL or Champions league.

Whoever admits to running Arsenal please go and get Klopp or Laudrup. Some players with passion, strength and style.

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If you have a question to any german article or post you are invited to ask me. I'd try to translate as well as possible.

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Sorry I'd keep Arteta he gives it 120%

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20 Feb 2013 09:36:19
It's been a while since I last posted on this site. I made a strong suggestion about two seasons ago that the fans should protest with their pockets and stop buying tickets and merchandise. I still stand by that but my mood has softened of late due to what I see are deep-seated problems with the club.

For too many years we have been scratching our heads trying to understand exactly what the position is with the transfer money situation. Without any clear, irrefutable proof, I am now of the thinking that the problem with transfers is not the board but the manager. Wenger has spent poorly over the last 3-4 seasons. The result of his bad buying is there for everyone to see. What is more ironic is the fact that he has a masters in Economics. I need to restrain myself from making this a personal attack but at times it is difficult. In order to clearly set out how the arsenal fan is constantly made a mug of, please review the last transfer window and Wenger's comments on Cavani. He flirted with the idea of arsenal signing Cavani to the tv media and then with the newspaper media THE VERY NEXT DAY clearly told the journos that he was not in for him. The result of the transfer window was the purchase of Monreal - a purchase that Wenger was forced to make due to injuries.

This is clearly not good enough for arsenal and the fans. The same fans that shelve out so much money in some of the harshest economic times we have every experienced. Wenger increasingly cuts the figure of a stubborn man who doesn't want anyone telling him that things need to change. Doesn't it baffle you that at the beginning of the season when Bould was more animated, the arsenal defence was praised. Now whenever we see shots of the bench Bould almost looks like he is in a coma and the defence looks like it is already on it's summer break.

Wenger has to go. Not because we are being short-sighted and do not appreciate all that he has done in the past but because it does not look like he has it in him to push arsenal to the next level of genuine premier and champions league contenders. A fresh, new impetus is needed from a new manager and a modern approach is required from our transfer and wage policy which steers clear from the 'socialist' structure championed by Wenger to a structure that rewards talent and results as it should be rewarded.

I dare not suggest a replacement manager but one is definitely needed.

NW4 Gunner

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Welcome back nw4 I remember your posts well.
like you I have been fighting on here for over 2 years for change.

the end is near mate.

i think if we do not get a result against aston villa it will be wengers last game.

i have never wanted arsenal to loose a game but this 1 has me thinking if we loose it could be a good thing for the club?

it is sad it has got to that?

we need to see who is running the club now.

the club needs a leader and I do not see many people will their hand up saying i'm in charge!

disgraceful.

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All the other bits aside that you referenced I would like to make a statement on economics.

for example gervinho cost 11 mill and is paid 70k a week or 3.7 mill a year.

So 11+ 3. 7 x 4years = 25.8 mill that's what gervinho cost over 4 years.

however you take

RVP as an example if we had to buy him for say 24 mill, his salary is 12 mill for 4 years

So 24 + 12 x 4 = 72 mill.


effectively using this logic of simple economics, wenger with cash at his disposal would rather buy 3 players and hope that one of them is the real deal compared to buying one player and putting all your eggs in that basket and it may not work out.

Logic is there. at the end of the day you need to build a team not buy a man.

fact is that gervinho, arshavin, squillachi, fabianski, and many others are just rubbish so his scouts are to blame more than him. but I get the point and I understand its a delicate moment for Arsenal fans. i'm quite pissed off myself, however putting emotions aside and using logic, sometimes you need to stand back and just hope he buys more players this summer who can help us, as we will def be getting rid of crap.

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20 Feb 2013 09:35:58
I don't know about you guys but I think Jack Wilshere deserves more than this.

He is one of the best players in the world (I have no doubt in my mind) and he could easily play for any team in the world and this is not an overstatement.

He is loyal now but if we follow this pattern of players being sold for worse players, I do imagine him leaving. And I wouldn't blame him either.

He shows such dedication to the club, he could honestly do a lot better than arsenal but he chooses to commit his future to the team that he loves.

Go out and buy a few world class players so we can actually win something and give jack the trophies he deserves. (we deserve too).

Nick.

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Nick

should wenger still be manager?

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No, I think it is time for a change, and if we lose to Spuds, I think he will go.

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20 feb 2013 09:33:13
what progress has the club made over the last 5 years?

where is all the exceptional youth we were suppose to have coming through that we were told was the future of the club. i can only see jw10.

what happened to the crop of players from around the time we had lansbury as the next hot thing?

we were told by the club that this was the way the club was going and this would see the majority of the investment. does any 1 think this policy has worked?

why do we have so many players out on loan?

why do we have players like denilson still on the books?
why is nb52 still an arsenal player?
who is making these decisions.

arsenal supporters need to take a good look at them selfs.
we are all to blame for letting it get this bad at the club.
man utd, barcelona, madrid, munich and every big club supporter fan base would never let it get that bad at their club.

the stadium fiance was suppose to run till 2031 to give us a chance of competing on the pitch.
what money has the club invested on the pitch the last 8 years.

the club has treated the fans like $ (-)it.

pay of the stadium so they can sell the club,, arsene wenger is part of the clubs strategy to do this.

hes not a manager he's aboard member.

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20 Feb 2013 09:09:11
we've effectively bowed out of Europe now (unless we can manage another AC Milan-esque performance) and literally no one is happy or buzzing about being a gunner right about now. regardless, we've still got three HUGE games in the league to play before a good ol' German spanking so let's just try and look ahead to the next game for now.

just wanted to say, despite a (quite understandable) brief lull in the first half last night, the fans there were amazing yesterday.
here's hoping for some positivity and some goshdarned luck on the field!

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MIKE

the fans deserve more.

arsenal fans/supporters have had enough.

we deserve the truth now.

the club is in turmoil and I can't see who's running the show?

all i'm hearing is rallying cry from peter hill-wood and he's got no legal power at the club,, and he's just come out hospital.

where is stan kroenke?

where is ivan gazidas?

were any of them at the game last night?

can some 1 tell me how many air miles RICHARD LAWS did to do with january transfer target?
did we have any real targets or was wenger B/S us all again?

i want answers.

enough is enough,, I feel like the club has disrespected me long enough.

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Of course we deserve more. the kinda displays we've witnessed over the last couple of years, we've been nothing short of being shafted.

i'm just saying that this season's fairly done for us now. we could linger over losses or we can trudge on and try and be positive for what's left to be salvaged of the season.

changes are needed at the club, no doubt, but they're best made after the season instead of rocking an already unstable ship, specially if it's in the managerial department.

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Oh, and kroenke was there yesterday I hear.

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20 feb 2013 08:27:58
what we seen last night was a typical stubborn performance from wenger.

what we seen last night was that wenger is not able to cut it on a big stage.

still no change of formation.

still no change of tack ticks.

still no new game plan.

its not the players fault that except 1-2,, they are not good enough.

nearly every goal we leak is because of not having a dm.

why was the gamble diaby not even on the pitch.

was it worth selling rvp for �24 mill when we will loose out on �40 mill in cl revenue next year.

disrespecting a visiting teams manager at the end of the game.

i woke up this morning expecting to see the club had sacked the manager.

how has wenger not been sacked?

what is going on at arsenal?

ed002/ed001,,, please give us that information on the clubs future? {Ed002's Note - When I get time.}

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It's very much a re-occouring theme spelt out here that has been present for few years and one Wenger has failed to rectify.

As a team we just too over balanced with small technical attack minded midfeilders and not enough physciallity and not enough of a defensive Mindset in midfield overall. It is clear that this
4-3-3 is ineffective for us and especially shows against good teams.

Also Although Mertasaker is not a bad defender really, in our high line he is too vunrable and forces the back line too deep beacuse of his lack of pace. TV5 seems to have lost his way since being made captain and Scezezny has lost focus since he knows his place as no1 is safe. He has let in some sloppy goals of late the 2nd goal last night was the real killer and one he should have prevented depsite the defenders not attacking the ball either.

That brings us on to the zonal marking which shows the defenders just do not know how to orgaise it. Nobody takes charge and attacks the ball. There is real lack of leadership and orgainsation in our side and on set peices it shows more than at any other time.

Wenger has had plenty of time and enough money to address the issues but has failed to do so due his sheer stubborness and blind loyalty to his players. For that reason he needs to go if we are to progress as a club and move forward again.

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20 Feb 2013 08:02:16
I keep yearning journo's saying be careful what you wish for with regards wenger. I'll answer that simply by saying a trophy or two. On the subject of being careful what we wish for. Wanyama of Celtic! He'd struggle to get a ticket to watch Man U, never mind be a transfer target. I must credit arsene with this. There's no way on earth he's considering buying an average spl player. In fact, average at best spl player.

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20 Feb 2013 07:57:03
Not a reaction to last night but this is the worst arsenal team I've seen during Wengers reign. No fight. No quality. I would get rid of 9 of the starting 11.

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I think our keeper and the back four need replacing, but the rest I think are ok, you don't become crap players overnight.
After we beat Iiverpool at Anfield at the beginning of the season, the team was working well together, we were even saying that Bouldy had sorted out the defence, but sadly the defence has been found out too many times since then.
We have some very good strikers and midfielders, and they are scoring plenty of goals, but it must affect their confidence when we can't hold onto a lead. If Wenger is there next year, he has to buy some decent defenders and a class keeper, Shezney (spelling)is No2 at best.

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This is definitely a reaction to last night's match.

"I would get rid of 9 of the starting 11. "

Super. very constructive comment mate. You would get rid of 9 players,
and then what

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Paul we were held together by rvp for 2 seasons.
when we sold him there was no 1 left.

rvp last night would of probably made 6-7 chances for him self.

when you sell your best players this is what happens.

if wenger was not making these decisions why has he not walked?

would alex ferguson put up with these policys?

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I agree to the shezza point though, he's just far too weak, ok kroos goal was hit with force, and he slightly had a blocked view, but it was near the middle if the goal, if any of you watched the Real Madrid game, de gea saved a shot blind, I'm not knocking shezza, I just think he's a number 2, any other goalie would of stopped that.

Wolvo gooner

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20 Feb 2013 07:49:12
One of the most worrying things about last night was the realisation that eventually Wilshire is going to want to win things in his career, and achieve that which befits his talent. Not this year or even next, but it will happen and nobody can blame him. He's a genius, and barca quality already.
Making him share a pitch with woeful players like szczesny, metesacker, diaby and gervinho week in week out will only hasten the realisation in the kid.
Whilst the keeper is the weakest link, we cannot ignore the fact that our midfielders aren't the answer either. Arteta's good but not good enough but Carzola seems to escape any criticism. He's a wonderful player in a great team, but an absolute waste of space in an average one. I haven't see much in the last few months that have convinced me he's anything other than the new archiving. Harsh? I don't think so.
Thoughts?

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Finally after two years of telling everyone that the entire team is not worthy to be in the champions league you can see the massive difference in talent.

It showed that the game was lost in the tunnel, the players looked nervous. the only player who showed up was jack and by far the best player on the pitch.

ramsey did a decent job but there was too much backward passing.

well now hopefully we can concentrate on the 4th and give wenger stick like he has never seen. keep chanting spend some fin money. but after we are winning the games. try not to disrupt the team if we need to win. but the manager needs to know.

something along the lines of 3-1 to bayern should rile him up. he needs to be reminded. he may forget but we wont.

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20 Feb 2013 07:43:58
Best player on the pitch last night wore red and white and was for him alone I chose not to boo at the end.
unfortunately the next best 11 players all wore bayern shirts.

We are simply nowhere near elite level anymore. We are 21 points behind utd and that says it all, the job needed to get us to a competitive level will take years and cost millions. let's be brutally honest.

Shezz - I'm not saying he should save that first goal all the time but he's constantly letting in saveable goals. He had loads of time to get across to save it and he didn't. He let's these soft goals in time and time again. We need a new goalkeeper.

Mert, kos and verm - all three are good enough if they have a shouty world class partner beside them. But we dont. Wesimply don't need three better than average defenders. We need world class. Out of the three of them were guarenteed one monumental balls up per game.

Arteta, Ramsey, Diaby. Three average midfielders. People go on about Arteta being the heartbeat of the team, well this is the sh!ttest arsenal team of my lifetime (im 27). He does very little. He passes sideways, that is it. No bursting runs forward, no crunching tackles, no insisive through balls. Nothing. He's a nice guy but he's simply not good enough to be first choice all the time. In my opinion 2 of these 3 need upgrading. Is be inclined to keep Rambo because he is improving, he does give his all and he's been wrongly used by Wenger the last 2 years.

Sagna - lost it needs replacing.

Rosicky - for his wages what does he offer? He plays about 10 games a season.

Add to that the endless list of sh!t out on loan aswell as gervinho, squilacci, fabianski who are not even good enough to be reserves.

One final note. A lot of people are calling for Wenger to "move upstairs"
To do what exactly? He can't talent spot any more, nd he's signed off contracts to some truley terrible players. His training methods are out of date, his tactics are out of date.
I have a lot of admiration for what he's done but bloody hell who ever got a job out of sentiment? He should not be allowed to name successor or have any control over the new manager. Its arsenal fc, not arsene fc.
AG

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We only make and sell world class players, so the club is cash healthy, but the team suffers in the end. Realisation kicking in, we are nowhere near Bayerns Level.

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Agree apart from Arteta. How many games have we lost last year when he wasn't playing? Just look it up. Arteta isn't going forward that much because Wenger plays him more defensively. No crunching tackles? Boy oh boy he almost killed Mandzukic.

Arteta is a very good player in my opinion but he needs better players around him just like Cazorla. It seems like if the team isn't playing well neither they do.

It's only Wilshere and Podolski who seem to step up no matter how the rest of the team plays.

Vermaelen is a nice guy but has not been the one he was 2 years ago. I think he is too quiet to be captain. Next season Jack has to lead the team onto the pitch.

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Jack already runs the attack and is expected to run the game for us buy everyone around him. last thing we need is to weigh him down with the armband. if he's asking for it or thinks he's ready, sure. but he really could do with lesser expectations.

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20 Feb 2013 07:33:30
Anybody beginning to see comparisons between AW, and Mr coach Klein from Waterboy? likes to try and hide during the game, becoming tactically inept. just hope AW has the same ending as Coach Klein lol

N. Wales Gunner

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20 Feb 2013 06:34:33
So easy for Munich, they were under pressure in the second half but had already achieved their aim of getting something to take back to Germany for the second leg.
We now have a mountain to climb but its not over yet. Should we score first assuming its early in the first half and we are able to keep it tight then who knows.

Time is running out for all the big wigs at arsenal they have asset stripped this squad down to a point where it can not compete at the top level, now it's struggling to compete at the 2nd highest level.
What was Wiltshire thinking last night? Bet he rang van persie to see what the weather was like in Manchester.

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I suggest you get a reality check. if we can't win at home. there is no way we will have 10 different players in 2 weeks.

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20 Feb 2013 06:27:45
Ramsey is much better suited in the holding role, Played with heart yesterday was 1 of the only players running

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20 Feb 2013 06:25:47
We need a big ugly centre back and we need a 6'3 semi quick rufless defensive midfielder.
Look at bayern,
Last season they were having to play schweinstager in a defensive role but in the summer they realised he is decent defensively but is a lot better going forward so they signed Martinez.
I believe Arsenal should do this with Arteta, Last season arteta was a far far better player as he didn't have to worry as much for his defensive duties, So we should sign a player like capoue who apparently is a good tackler or somebody who when is on the pitch you know the other team are scared of (a hit like Gattuso a few years ago)
Wilmslow Gooner

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20 Feb 2013 02:18:22
Oh my god people you all are over analyzing EVERYTHING! go to the basics

Our players are not good enough!
The basics everyone must be seeing
1. We are NOT CONFIDENT on the ball. We pass to the open man 99% of the time when an opponent comes close. no one but jack has the balls to give their man a juke and try to run by them.

2. We hardly win 50/50 balls in the air. THIS INCLUDES HEADERS from scoring positions.

3 our defending I won't even go into its too obvious

4 No one on our team again other than jack can take a player on with a dribble. even carzola doesn't do it he just uses his dribbling to keep possession.

5. We are physically weak weak weak. We get pushed off the ball and cannot hold it up

6. team pressing. We just do not press together. its either the forwards and not the mids or the mids and not the forwards. these players do not have good footballing brains.

Im sure you guys can add to this list. these are just the ones I can think of right now. Before some smart Alec asks if if i'm good enough to play on the Arsenal team let me re iterate that i'm saying we lack in the listed reasons at the top top level

let me know what you guys think and please add to this your opinion

Believable15 Unbelievable0

You've pretty much covered the big points well.

our defence hasn't been the best in recent years, but the way it is now where we play deep and get numbers behind the ball makes me question why Wenger decided to change the old high back-line and pressing game from previous 3-4 seasons. we're still as shambolic but at least back then we had the ability to counter faster and better when we got it right.

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Scooby as you anf a few others have been saying for over 2 years I have been coming on here the football is no longer any good.

no new tactics

no new ideas.

just the 1 game plan with no plan b.

players that were bought were not good enough.

the manger is at fault for every thing.

time 4 a change "NOW".

in arsene we rust.

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You deserve some scooby snacks for that post.

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20 Feb 2013 02:14:22
I think we are going to come back and give Bayern a real run. they are not the same team without Schweini playing.

1. We gave up poor goals, Giroud equalizes and we prob go on to draw at least

2. I watch enough Bayern to know when they are shaking, and the game was for the taking. sometimes things don't go your way

3. Hummels gave up a cheaper goal last week than we did all day. so sorry, 25m defenders do it too

4. Rambo was class today, again. Our problem is Arteta's lack of mobility. I like Ramsey a lot in the holding role. again, the kid is 21

5. Kos was class today, and should be first choice moving forward

6. Theo is not a forward unless he adds 10 solid pounds of muscle

7. Why on Earth does Poldi not play down the middle, although his work-rate and link play make him necessary on the wing. as in buy a damn winger Arsene

8. Why does Rosicky not play. he was more effective than Cazorla. I think Santi is tired, rightfully so, and should now be used as a super sub w Rosicky starting

9. We absolutely need a world class striker. Giroud should be better next season, but then Gervinho hasn't improved, so we can't count on that. Gonzalo Higuain anyone?

10. Enough is enough. spend the damn money, sign a damn keeper. Szczesny might not have as many howlers as Almunia did, but he isn't in the same stratosphere as Lehman was yet

Ok. everyone knows I'm the biggest Wenger supporter out there

10. If he wants Dein back, get Dein, or anyone who can negotiate the window. But this next window is his last chance because at this point, our form is very clearly affecting our reputation around Europe.

I don't care if the player is 5m or 25m, I want the right player. Plain and simple.

To say he missed on Capoue last second is a slap in our face when he had a month to do it. We needed a fullback so he chose a cup tied one and that's exactly where they exposed us. All three goals came from the left. we needed fullbacks last December and January sucked because we lacked them. I'm not sure what his deal is, but this is where an Owner or GM who give a rubbish about the team would help. "hey Arsene. if you need the player, buy the damn player. but that area of weakness better be fixed"

We needed a defender, again giving up 3 goals a Pepe or Ramos or kompany or vidic or piqu� stop

A decent back line has a clean sheet today.

If it is indeed the board and Wenger is the scapegoat. then he should say so, let us know what they are, and resign. screw them right back

But again, the result isn't what depresses me, which is the saddest part acknowledging how mediocre we have become, but once again the mental lapses, poor start, lack of communication and finger pointing. when these are repeated problems that's on the manager solely

I have said for awhile Wenger should move upstairs and that we need a man manager. I believed that for all he has done, he can miss a CL or two, he's earned it. but to give it away the way we have is ridiculous. So at this point he's on the clock

Fab, Nasri, RVP, Song and Clichy make the difference today. that's the worst part

Arsene and the lads. time to earn your paycheck. otherwise I hope Usmanov goes nuts and cleans house. perhaps it's time for a culture change

Believable5 Unbelievable16

As much as I like Wenger, I don't want to see him move up in the club's hierarchy, at least not under this management.

and i've tried putting myself in this sorta situation where if I were a club I love but whose owners didn't really care, i'd feel personally responsible for it and try to make rubbish work instead of resigning and letting it sort itself out. not to say that this is how it is at Arsenal, but just how I feel about it.
but yeah, someone at the club needs to speak up and offer a bit of honesty to the fans for once.

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Soryy but it was men v boys one commentator said "arsenal are 5 years behind bayern and it shows" and unfortunately for all the potential its true

dave

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Usgooner I think you know I have a lot of respect for you but every thing that is wrong with arsenal is wengers fault.

wenger can never be aloud to move up stairs.

2 years to replace cesc.

shows how much we relied on rvp for 2 seasons.

never replaced song.

we have needed a 1st choice gk since jens left.

2 years to replace nasri.

putting faith in diaby, rosicky ang gibbs with their abysmal injury record for how many years?

how many players have we out on loan?

players dictating when they leave the club,, how is arshavin still at the club?

when a manager has to explain what he has done in football to the press, is a manger that is in denial and trying to justify him self to every 1.

wengers footballing decision have been wrong and out dated for over 5 years now.

if he goes up stairs it will show every 1 how much power he actually has.

no thanks

he should be gone this morning that's what big clubs do.

no more excuses

no more time

wenger out

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Don't know what team you were watching but your a little deluded if you think we can come back from this.

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20 Feb 2013 02:11:01
Big big big changes in the summer mr wenger or its pack your bags time for real. You guys that don't support wenger be a city fan, any slagging city, chelski, whoever, claim u have a season ticket and won't use it until he's gone bore off. Sum half hearted so called die hard fans on ere bunch of girls. Got 2 take the rough with the smooth, even though there has been a lot of rough u girls should like that. Afc4l!fe

Believable6 Unbelievable3

That doesn't help bring change as loyal as you are (which I admire) change is required and the fans need to make the change happen.

dave

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20 Feb 2013 00:53:02
Are team set up is simmilar to munichs and Germany's but our players our not good enough. We need a world class cb a right wing back a holding player a winger and a striker also were was theo today he's so overrated hope we sell him and gervinhio so padolski can play up front

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20 Feb 2013 00:48:03
Arsenal 1-0 Bayern 2005

Line up:Lehmann, Lauren, Toure, Cole, Ljungberg (Van Persie 80), Flamini (Fabregas 63), Vieira, Reyes (Pires 63), Bergkamp, Henry

How many of our current team would even make the bench? Funny thing is that back then we were genuinely skint but now with �100m (who knows) burning a whole in our pocket we end up with nothing on the pitch.
Eman.

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Senderos also played. not one of our all-time greats. And we also lost the tie with Bayern back in 2005. Lost 3-1 away. I really like Wenger, he has been our greatest manager. bit I think it is time for him to get another position in our club. I would welcome Jurgen Klupp.


Norwegian Gunner

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Why did we start the match with ten men?

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Did you miss out sol campbell?

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20 Feb 2013 00:21:31
Another shocking night for arsenal. The thing that really annoys me is you can see they can be good enough but for some reason just don't perform.

a few things I thought was wrong tonight

1. Carzola playing at wide just don't work for us, he has to play in the middle.

2. Giourd should of started to give us that option and more chance of scoring from a cross in the box and walcott should of started the game out wide. I just think when walcott plays out wide and Giourd up front they both seem to play better and they switch from time to time.

3. Ramsey should of never started the game sorry he has been improving but for me he is so slow on the ball and can't really run past players.

4. Sagna needs to be sold in the summer or kept as a No: 2 and bring in a new Rb. he has been so bad, he is never on he's toes no matter how much room or time he's got out wide he always waits till a player gets near him then he tries and crosses the ball but never gets it past the player.

Top Gun

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19 Feb 2013 23:57:50
Well 3-1 lose there is just no hiding place at this level. Bayern are a class outfit no doubt. They have no real star players like a Barca. or a Madrid have but top players that work so well as a complete unit, efficent well drilled and ruthless when their chances come, very German infact.

I have to say though we helped them a lot in the 1st half with starting so sloppy and the 2nd goal in particular was a gift and real killer blow. The players simply do not get Zonal marking you have to attack the ball for gods sake.

Why does it take us to fall too far behind for us to really get with it and start having a impact on the game. The team selection was wrong Ramsey is just not starter in games such as this, not good enough. Walcott can't play as lone striker in the centre he needs to either stay out wide or partner Giroud in a 4-4-2. We also paid for not having a natural LB available and Bayern exploited this weakness.

This 4-3-3 yet again against the better sides proves so ineffective and gives little control in midfield. We have not got enough physicality and power in there to make 4-3-3 work well for us.

Marks:-

Sczenzy 5:- Seems to be going backwards slowly. Flapped at a few corners and has to do much better for 2nd goal even though the defenders did not attack the ball he can't just palm it straight to Muller like that.

Sagna 5:- Not much of a clue going forward, usual poor deliveries from out wide often got crowded out. Little unlucky with 3rd goal.

Kos 6:- Pace got him out of trouble a few times but looked nervous on the ball.

PM 5:- As the older more experienced CB partner needs to show more leadership. Needs to marshall the back line from his lead. Again looks clumsy on the ball. Not suited to a high line pressing game when we need to push the back 4 up to support the midfielders pressuring in 2nd half.

TV 6:- Did his best but looks uncomfortable as LB. Defended O. k with some good interceptions but not much clue going forward. Really missing Gibbs.

Arteta 5:- Neat and tidy But he is just not being utilised well playing so deeply. Little impact on game going forward. Game passed him by at times.

Ramsey 5:- Just not up to standard at this level for me. Works hard but offers little going forward. Gave some free kicks away in dodgy positions aswell.

Wilshire 8:- Easily our best player yet again. The only one driving forward with any real purpose. Some good slalomesque runs that caused problems to Bayern in 2nd half. Need
a few more like him.

Cazorla 6:- In and out of game. did not get on the ball enough often tried to force it too much.

Podolski 6:- can't fault effort and gets stuck in, but apart from goal little impact really. Misses Gibbs on the overlap.

Walcott 5:- lsolated figure up front in he just can't play on his own up there against any sort of decent side. He needs a partner in a 4-4-2 our 4-3-3 does not get best out of him. Very little impact apart from that cross to Giroud when he came on.


Subs, Rosicky 6:- Short cameo but proved much more comfortable at this level than Ramsey does good ball to Walcott for Giroud chance.

Giroud 6:- Little time but gave the Bayern defence something to think about physically and unlucky with that vital chance to make it 2-2, almost hit it too clean in a way.

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I just want to say that Bayern have a team full of star players. Ribery is one of the best wingers/wide forwards in the world. Muller has been consistently star quality at the highest level for club and country his entire career. Scweinsteiger's nickname the Brain is justified. Javi Martinez had us on lockers all night, star of the Europa League and spanish league last year along with some other players, moved to Bayern for a fortune. Philip Lahm the most consistent wing back in the world. Germany captain too I think (don't quote me but pretty sure he is/was), then you have one of the top 5 if not 3 keepers in the world in Neuer, you have Robben who we all know is one of the best players in the world. Their team is full of star players - the problem is these days you don't hear anything about players if they aren't in the uber ridiculous category (Messi/RVP/Ronaldo) or the going-to-be-uber-ridiculous category e. g. Hazard. Bayern is a team absolutely littered with stars!

Sorry, I just needed to get that off my chest!

Agree12 Disagree2

A five for Schez? He was woeful. Not good enough to be number 1 at this stage.

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19 Feb 2013 23:52:21
I think I'll get slated for this, but I'm ugly enough to take it.

If Jack Wilshere handed in a transfer request in the summer, I'd have no issues with it, and I'd bid him
a fond farewell and wish him luck for the future.

The guy cried today.
That's not a phrase or a exaggeration.
The guy CRIED.
He knew that team hadn't done the fans justice, he knew they were poor, and I think he felt partly to blame (why ill never know, he was our best player YET AGAIN, trying to make something happen EVERY TIME he got the ball) the guy is a gunner through and through, and I, as much as I love arsenal (not Wenger, Kroenke, Gazidis etc, I mean the club) I can't stand to see such a perfect talent go without trophies.
And you can say "he's young, he'll win something" but Wilshere plays like a true veteran, and as such deserves to be rewarded like it.
The guy deserves silverware as much as the fans.
You know when players or managers say "we're hurting too"
No, your not.
Your worried if this affects your bonus.
Wilshere is different.
Jack suffers every ounce of pain we do.
If Jack Wilshere left, I'd be heartbroken.
Not because he chose to leave, but because we drove him to that point.
I'd NEVER hold against the guy, if he bailed on a sinking ship.

People say "Wenger was great for 16 years" and never mistake, I will always appreciate what Wenger DID.
But I can't forgive what he's doing.
Wenger was great for 3 years.
Good for another 4, and poor for 9.

Wengers strength came when nobodies joined arsenal as players with stuff to prove.

Henry; doubted at his clubs, joined from Juve as an unknown, ended a star.

Lljungberg; joined as an unknow, became a star.

Pires; ^

Cole; academy.

Gilberto; lesser known

Viera; lesser know.

Anelka; lesser know

Kanu; lesser known

Kolo; lesser known

Bergkamp; the one "star" shall we say.

These guys joined arsenal, were raised by Wenger, and added to the likes of Dixon, Adams, Seaman, Keown, were great.

And they were raised by Wenger, at arsenal, to greatness.

Then as they departed, we only went young.

Cesc, Nasri, Adebayor, clichy, Szczesny, denilson, Walcott, players that had no winning experience, backed up with an odd ageing player or 2.
Players that brought us nothing, and on the brink of achievement, left year after year.

Now, we have our current crop.

Szczesny, Gibbs, Wilshere are the only players in the line up to come all the way through the academy.
And when fit (barring the odd howler from Shezza) have been 3 of our top 5 players (completed by Santi and Giroud for me, Poldi in a close 6th JUST behind Giroud) yet the others, Sagna, Vermalen, Koscielny, Ramsey, Mertesaker, Gervinho, Diaby have NOT been up to par this season.
And to make matters worse for me, other than Ramsey (god loves a trier) the others don't seem to care anymore, verm makes the odd great challenge, but a shadow of who he was, same for Kos really, Sagna is terrible, and bringing him in at Jenks expense was a terrible call by Arsene, and Merts has lost his initial form.

We're just rotting from the inside.

When one apple on the tree goes rotten, you cut it off, to stop the others rotting.

Wenger has to go.
I'm sorry to say it, but the guy has no idea anymore, it's like watching him decline into senility.

And it's simple changes.
(It's easy to say that, I know, this is real life, not FM or FIFA, but for arguments sake)

Bring in Mats Hummels, Ettiene Capoue and Igor Akinfeev.

Instantly, I feel better about a line up.

Akinfeev
Jenkinson-Hummels-Vermalen-Monreal
Capoue
Wilshere-Cazorla
Walcott Podolski
Giroud

To me, instantly better.

If we're greedy, say maybe add Villa (less than �9m or no at that age) or Lewandowski, or if like me you think we need a real winger, as Podolski should rotate up top, Griezmann or Valbeuna.


Those deals would probably outlay the majority if not of this "�70m warchest" lie that's being put out, but for one second say price isn't an issue.
Would arsenal still be able to attract those players?
3 years ago, yes.
Now, would you leave Dortmund, where you compete for every domestic trophy, for "4th place is a trophy"
or CSKA Moscow?
Where you're competing again, with Anzhi and Zenit?
Maybe.

Capoue is the only one on that list we could get realistically.

And Griezman, if you go winger.

Villa, �100k + a week and �10m + fee on a 31 year old?
Behave.

So really, replace Hummels with say Sakho, Lewandowski with someone like Wilfred Bony or Aubamayeng, from VVV Venlo or Saint Etienne, (just being a little more realistic in range of quality we can attract, not we would buy) and suddenly it's not as great.

We need to compensate our poor standing in world football, with a bit of Cash, bite the bullet, pay a bit extra in fee's and wages, and reap the rewards later.
Or suffer the consequences.

Sorry for the epic rant guys, but yeah.

D

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I can't agree more about Jack. hurts to see someone who consistently makes you so proud, distraught after every match.

He was the best player in the stadium today.

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Bergkamp was signed by Bruce rioch

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Bergkamp was signed by David Dein

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US, agreed mate, for all Bayerns dominance, no player was close to Wilshere's brilliance last night.

Second reply, my bad!
I was in a foul mood when I wrote this, so anger my of clouded some of my "facts"

D

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19 Feb 2013 23:39:10
Zieler/Begovic
Howedes-Hummels-Vermaelen-Gibbs

Capoue/Wanyanma

Santi-Wilshere-

Walcott-Jovetic-Poldi

Captain Wilshere {Ed027's Note - why an earth would you fork out on howedes and put him at rb, we should buy a proper one

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19 Feb 2013 23:36:54
Obviously Rosicky, Wilshere, Poldi and Santi are our only world class players

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Kos was a beast today

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World class players my arse

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Would definately say they are the 4 I would keep and in my team week in week out for the rest of the season

shaneyd

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19 Feb 2013 23:31:57
Our naivety and lack of composure cost us. we need 11 jacks in the team
Rosicky giroud and ox should have came on for arteta mert and podolski in the second half we should have gone for it. we played well in the second half but the difference in class was there for all to see couldn't gain momentum after we scored

GS

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