Arsenal Banter Archive June 20 2018

20 Jun 2018 18:42:00
Some people saying our signings and imminent signings look a little underwhelming. I have to agree, they are functional and needed. We don't really need a superstar, we need stability at the back and in midfield. None of who we have signed are world beaters, far from it but they are signed to do a job and give us a bit more functionality. Our aim this year should be top four and EL. We aren't in a position to expect anymore, yet. The flakey defending has to be addressed first before we do anything else. We will have to wait and see if the players signed do that, the new guys in, seem to think so.

20 Jun 2018 19:31:55
Our boat was sinking simply because it had far too many holes that had been left unplugged for years.
With so many holes it's impossible to fix them all with state of the art craftsmanship so we will use cork and super glue to firstly stop taking on more water and once we are water tight again we can think about entering round the world races again.
Top 4 will be tough but we have more chance this season than last season when 5th to 7th was pretty inevitable from day one.

20 Jun 2018 19:36:57
I’m just hoping we are harder to beat

That’s a start.

20 Jun 2018 20:03:50
Hey all, haven’t posted for a few years but still regularly read. I have to say the signings we have made are all experienced but pretty unknown to most of us, however looks to have strengthened us in the right areas.

Just a little reminder that a certain mr Wenger made some pretty average unknown signings soon after joining. To name a few a mr Vieira, mr Henry, mr pires, and mr petit.

The mark of a good manager is seeing potential in players that others may have missed and also motivating them and playing them to their strengths.

As it stands right now I’m happy, but time will tell.

20 Jun 2018 20:38:58
Hi 337 mate, time as you say will tell. I think Dick is doing what needs to be done rather than everything he would like to do.
It's a quick fix for now that can and will be built on and improved as we go along.
I think judge Dick and Sven in 3 seasons time as it's no easy job they've walked into.

20 Jun 2018 21:18:34
Yes Hi 337, i for one are looking forwardxto see what a difference a coach will make to us next season, new players, new ideas and no more stale boring team selections, fitting our "best" players in and making the same substitutions on 62 mins. Its a new start for us and gone are the silly defensive mistakes and school girl defending.

20 Jun 2018 22:44:07
BG if we plug the holes we have enough up top with ozil, ramsey, welbeck, lacca, myki and auba to have a really competative season.

21 Jun 2018 09:16:17
337. I like the kick in the groin comment aimed at Mourinho about what makes a good manager.

21 Jun 2018 12:22:32
Sorry to say it but Wilshere was one of the holes.

20 Jun 2018 11:42:27
Am I the only one who is massively underwhelmed by our business this transfer window? On the back of our worst season in 20 years, we have signed Lichtsteiner, Leno, whilst supposedly Lucas Torreira and Sokratis are on their way. None of these signings walk into our strongest starting xi. When Emery joined I didn’t expect immediate success, I expected and was excited to see a project. Tbh I’m quite confused by what is going on and by who is in charge.

20 Jun 2018 11:59:19
Sorry but what are you on about. None of these players walk into our stongest 11. Which keeper do we have better than leno. Cech sadly isn't what he was and ospina is not good enough. Sokratis. Koscielny is better but who else is better to partner him. Torreria which defensive midfielder is better than him. Can you even name someone who is a natural defensive midfielder. Honestly baffled me this post.

20 Jun 2018 12:04:56
Yep, what D16 said!

20 Jun 2018 12:37:46
Agree with you D16, if at all we have gone about our business in a refreshing sense and got the men we thought we would at the start of the summer. Credit were due to SM and RS.
COYG.

20 Jun 2018 12:43:17
What do you consider our strongest 11 JW? Which are our 2 CBs that are difficult to displace? Where is our strong midfield that only he best can improve.
Our defence and midfield were awful last August before a ball was kicked and they got worse as the season progressed.

20 Jun 2018 12:44:46
I have no idea what your talking about JW10 mate.

20 Jun 2018 13:24:15
Jack leaving has scrambled your brain mate! For where we are at the moment great business COYG.

20 Jun 2018 13:56:27
We are doing great business, getting quality experience combined with new (and current) talents. I also believe Leno Licht and Sokratis are all underrated players that might shine in Arsenal.

20 Jun 2018 14:22:02
I agree with JW. I wouldn't say massively underwhelmed perhaps, but certainly by no means blown away.

Leno - A good goalkeeper, but certainly has not a proven improvement on Cech - seems to have been brought in to replace Ospina, with the hope he will improve and replace Cech in time.

Lichtsteiner - Hopefully provides experience, but realistically provides depth for a season as we cannot afford to address the back-up right back with a long-term solution this summer. With Maitland-Niles providing full back cover, does Lichtsteiner make the bench even?

Sokratis - 30 years old, has been solid for Dortmund and seems to address the issue of Koscielny being out until Jan and possibly not returning. Necessary as the defence lacks experience in Kos' absence and Merte's departure, but will need to be moved on himself in a couple of years. Very much a stop-gap.

Torreira - by all accounts a talented midfielder with potential (although nobody other than Everton seemed fussed about challenging us for the signing) . Still very unproven with only 2 seasons at a mid-table Serie A club at his belt and doesn't hold down a starting position for Uruguay.

Don't get me wrong, we've had a hell of a squad turnover, and we need a couple of numbers and younger players, but these players aren't walking into the starting 11, they're mainly depth, which is necessary (but then they do say that top clubs improve by signing players that do walk into their first teams, so who knows. )

And let's be honest, if Wenger made these signings we'd all be complaining that Lichtsteiner and Sokratis are past it and poor investments, Leno has a reputation for clangers (and is not Jan Oblak) , and Torreira is a gamble on a youngster.

20 Jun 2018 13:53:06
In all honesty I have to agree with JW here - if Wenger was doing this same business it would be spun the other way, "an ageing right back", "a 30-year old stop gap centre back", "a relatively unproven central midfielder" and a goalkeeper "who can't displace Kevin Trapp in the Germany squad".

In real terms top clubs improve by signing players that improve their starting 11, not make up numbers for the squad.

Leno should be an improvement on Ospina, but I don't think he breezes into the starting 11 ahead of Cech, they'll compete. (Oblak would have walked in, but I guess we can't afford him) .

Lichtensteiner - does he even get on the bench if we have Maitland-Niles as full back cover?

Sokratis shouldn't displace Mustafi, certainly not while Kos is out, and seems to be a short-term solution in case Kos' injury proves to be hard to recover from. he adds experience, definitely, but he's unlikely to take the defense to the next level before he needs replacing himself.

Torreira - looks a good prospect and young, but Ramsey and Xhaka are (deservedly) our starting two midfielders, so he only starts if we play a three (which means sacrificing one of our best players in attack) .

And then you look at the other players we're linked with - Seri, looks good, but is expensive considering his highest level of experience is at Nice. Pellegrini is an option, but he doesn't displace Xhaka. Soyuncu has potential, but is he better than Chambers, Holding or Mavropanos, who are all showing signs of good development? Even if he is, he's not ready to start for us in the Prem yet, and is an expensive gamble.

If the potential on the younger guys works out, sure in a few years we could have a really good team, but on the face if it we're replacing some squad players we've moved on over the past year with some other squad players. It might turn out to be a masterstroke but just because we're making more signings than usual isn't enough, the jury is still very far out.

20 Jun 2018 14:47:52
Leno - One of the stars in the Bundesliga last season and 100% improvement over Cech. Couldn't disagree more.
Torreira - Young, strong and can actually tackle. How you can say he won't get in the starting 11 is beyond me. We don't even have a proper defensive midfielder so yes, he starts.
Sokratis - Agree with the aging thing but he's got a couple of seasons left in him. He will bring the well needed experience to the team and also provide advise to his young Greek companion, Mavropanos.
Lich - He's a free and has had a lot of success. Again, i'm not one for aging players but when you don't pay for him you can't really complain. I'm happy for him to play as backup to Bellerin and provide the experience we need on the training pitch.

You don't always have to play for a team like Barcelona to be considered a good signing. Torreira will fit the bill and he's the one i'm most excited about.

20 Jun 2018 15:05:53
We are signing the players we can afford because we have slipped so far under wenger and wasted our recent transfer money. Not being in the CL is impacting greatly on our ability to spend and attract. We need to first stop the side and then try and get back to being a more competative team, which we are trying to do. Once we address the slide and get back in the top four and CL, then we should see bigger names. We do need to plug holes first. You can all thank Mr Wenger for that, he has took us to a bad place.

20 Jun 2018 15:24:06
DH I agree with you about Arsene making these same signings would spell doom and gloom but Arsene had earned a very poor reputation on spotting and developing new talent, all bar Sanchez struggled under his management plus if we needed a CB Arsene would most likely buy anything but a CB for some reason, Dick is at least adressing the right areas.
I think Dick stands more chance of taking us where we want to go simply because he has no connection or friendships with the players so his vision isn't clouded.

20 Jun 2018 15:29:19
DH I agree with most of your points, but you lost me on xhaka deservedly a starter.

20 Jun 2018 16:09:39
DH makes a great point about if these signings were Wenger signings. Obviously spending big money on big name players is no guarantee of success, just look at Lacazette. But surely to get top 4 we need better than two 30+ defenders, a keeper who is not even one of the three in his national squad. Tbf Torreira is a kid who could turn out to be a world beater in a couple of years. But come on we’re the arsenal. Are those signings going to get us back in the top 4? Do they bring us on a par with the teams above us? We finished 6th last year, nearly 40 points off top. We were twelve point off 4th. Ask yourselves if any other top team with champions league ambitions would be content with those signings after our worst season in 20 years.

20 Jun 2018 16:28:06
I would be reticent to go out on a limb and say that Leno is an improvement on Cech without him ever having played a PL game. Stats suggest they're at similar levels, Leno has more recent clean sheets, Cech has a slightly better save per shots ratio. I hope Leno develops into a top keeper, but he's definitely been signed as a 'good keeper with the potential to improve', and moving Ospina on, rather than Cech, seems more prudent.

We don't have a 'defensive midfielder who can tackle' as we haven't played with one since Gilberto Silva (and even then he was more of an interceptor than a tackler/ destroyer-type) . I would be surprised if Torreira has been signed to be a scrappy 'destroyer' type. Given Emery plays a pressing game I imagine he's been bought for his energy and ability to intercept, but unless we're playing a defensive 3-man midfield I don't see a 22-year old from Sampadoria who can't get in the Uruguay midfield, managing to get into ours. (not to mention playing a 3 man midfield means dropping one of our attacking players who will all start most of our games, fitness permitting) . He is very young and has time to develop, though, which is positive.

Lichtsteiner and Sokratis are what they are, stop gaps. Not particularly exciting but hopefully do a job for us for a year or two. Sokratis' commitment and strength looks good (although he seems to love a last-minute slide in, which we already have plenty of with Mustafi going to ground. )

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these are 'bad' signings, I just agree they're relatively underwhelming (and it wasn't long ago we were bemoaning signings of a very similar caliber) . I hope I'm sat here in two years time grinning as Leno wins the golden glove and Torreira has had a break out season a la Kante for Leicester the other year, I'm just not going to bet on it. (at least until I've seen them play) .

Re Xhaka, he's just signed a 6-year contract on higher wages with assurances from Emery of his importance in the team. Whether you like him or not he is considered an integral part of our team by both the old regime and the new, and based on what I've seen of him, deservedly so.

20 Jun 2018 16:50:04
DH you have just lost my attention on your last line.

20 Jun 2018 17:25:54
Cech is gone.

20 Jun 2018 20:48:00
What exactly does Xhaka do?
I just don't get it, he can't tackle he isn't full of effort and running and he gives the ball away far to often.
Serious question please someone tell me his attributes and what he brings to the team as I'm lost on this.

20 Jun 2018 20:58:16
Gunnner, leave it, just leave it, he's brilliant right, leave it. Are you blind, haven't you seen how he's transformed our midfield, leave it. Topic closed. He is our mr dependable. He is working on his tackling, he's going to start running more and he's going to start passing to our defence more to stop giving the ball away, leave it gunner, you are picking on him. Some of his 5 yard passes are world class, leave it. he's ours!

20 Jun 2018 21:58:40
But seriously can anyone, anyone at all say what he does that makes him a stand out player!
What is it?
Of all the people who state how good he Is surely someone can say why he is so good and what it is he does so well?
It can't all be based on the odd long shot and odd across field ball.

20 Jun 2018 22:23:44
He brings an aspect of thuggery, though unproductive and more often than not a hindrance and at 26 has more reds and yellows than shawcross and Charlie Adam at 30 and 32 when comparing him to people who also kick opponents more often than the ball, but it's not his fault he's been played out of position, he's creative and has a lethal shot which hasn't been utilised as his 13 goals and 14 assists in 220 club appearances can attest to.

20 Jun 2018 22:36:59
Impressive, eden.

20 Jun 2018 22:56:23
What's that 1 goal 1 assist every 17 games or something similar? 2 of each a season?
Not impressive by anyone's standards.
Where is his best position?
Can he be in the same team as Ozil if neither tackle or have any defensive instincts and if it comes to Xhaka or Ozil surely there is no contest because although I don't know Mesuts figures for goals and assists but I'm pretty sure it's more than 2 of each a season.
Ramsey Ozil Xhaka offer very little regards stopping goals while Xhaka offers little stopping starting or finishing goals.
Surely like Iwobi in many many games he's a passenger as Mesut can be to at times.

21 Jun 2018 00:01:57
It does beg the question gunner, what on earth does emery see in him? It will be interesting this coming season, when the pressure is on and emery witnesses him first hand, how much he trusts him.

21 Jun 2018 08:12:37
I must admit Steve I'm shocked by Dicks decision but hopefully he's spot on and Xhaka will prove the likes of us wrong but it can't be all about an odd long ball or the odd shot from distance because if it is i was wasted as I could pick out a 40 yard pass to a man in arces of space as most could most of my mates and all the other Sunday league players I Played with.

21 Jun 2018 11:12:43
Everyone slates him but he's being played out of position! What is so hard to get about that? He is NOT a defensive midfielder simple as that. Ozil is not a winger simple as that. Lacazette was getting pushed out to the left a few times and he was dog s**t.
Xhaka needs to play more offensively and actually have a chance of executing what he's good at. Pin point passes, creative play and shooting. NOT and I repeat NOT being the one who is relied on to stand at the back and cover defensively. Which again, he isn't comfortable doing.
Maybe we should play Ramsey at CB, Cech in central midfield with Leno and play Monreal as our striker. They might get a load criticism then for being rubbish and we can sell them all. Xhaka, Ozil, and Welbeck have all fallen victim of wanting to play for Arsenal but keep getting put in wrong positions in the wrong formations but it doesn't matter anyway. Xhaka has a new contract and we will see how the team plays next season. I hope he proves everybody wrong, I really do.

21 Jun 2018 14:27:39
Glen, i'm sorry, i don't want him in any position, i want a real footballer who actually influences games and is talented, not tainted. I will say this, while xhaka is in our midfield we will never challenge for the league, i rate him that low. Of all the great midfielders we have had, he is a fraud. I just don't see what people see in him. Most people see he is dire. I haven't met one opposition fan who even remotely rates him.

21 Jun 2018 15:19:19
You'll never meet an opposition fan rate anyone if they play in the wrong position and don't play very well. Sanchez was utilised in the right way at Arsenal and was class. He's gone to united and even the united fans don't want him anymore because he's being played in the wrong formation and keeps switching positions and now he's rubbish! Funny that. It's also quite easy to say we are not going to challenge for the league whilst he's in the team when we haven't challenged really for nearly 14 years. What would make it any different now.

20 Jun 2018 10:41:46
Uruguay midfielder Lucas Torreira's transfer to Arsenal looks set to be confirmed soon after the Sampdoria president revealed a deal had already been completed.
Ferrero also suggested that all that was left to do was to make the transfer official.

Another one nearly over the line, could there be more? COYG!

20 Jun 2018 10:55:08
Definitely in my opinion.

20 Jun 2018 11:35:25
I would think so too but that 'rumored' transfer budget is bulging now. It's fair enough selling players to raise some additional capital for transfers but you need offers first. I wouldn't be disappointed at all if that was all we brought in but another couple would be fantastic! (pure greed! )

20 Jun 2018 12:46:34
Has there been any interest in any of our players? I haven't seen much. Fulham were potentially interested in chambers.

20 Jun 2018 12:53:13
No optimism rather than greed mate, we could do with another grafter in the middle to go along with the new DM and add some physical presence as and when needed. Plus another CB too in my opinion.
If neither Kos or Mustafi are first choice next season that's got to be improvement.

20 Jun 2018 13:08:58
Yeah that's true mate. The only other thing that worries me is the effect too many changes can have! Look at Everton, they signed like 11 players or something stupid and it all went horribly wrong! I know it's silly to compare things like that but we don't want to unsettle to much! I just don't want it all going wrong! Someone give me a slap haha!

20 Jun 2018 14:06:10
I think if things weren't to bad when Dick arrived the unsettling effect of lots of signings is a fair one but because things have deteriorated badly over a long time major change had to happen asap.
If we had fixed slowly Pea Lacasette Ozil would all need replacing because of age by the time we got sorted and we'd be back to square one again.
No offence but Arsene let the quality of defence and midfield get very low so drastic action was the only way in my opinion
The message is loud and clear for all to hear, the cosy club is no longer in operation at AFC, it's time for all who are kept on to shape up or find new clubs.

20 Jun 2018 15:52:42
Yeah he isn't going to be a pushover and neither is his assistant manager! I hear he is bit of a loudmouth on the pitch too! I must say, the one thing i am looking forward to most is seeing Emery and his assistant NOT sitting in the dugout clutching his stomach like he's got constipation every week! Some passion on the sideline will do us a world of good.

20 Jun 2018 09:45:03
In the past 12 months, Walcott, Giroud, Cazorla, Wilshere, Coquelin, Gibbs? Ox, Mertesacker, Debuchy, Sanchez all gone. I didn't actually realize how many previous 'first teamers' had been been moved on! Credit where its due, this team needed a major overhaul and the cosy club mentality needed to change. Its beginning to look in a lot better shape.

20 Jun 2018 12:42:25
Don't forget Gabriel and Szseszency.

20 Jun 2018 06:31:15
I find it intriguing that Arsenal are reportedly trying to negotiate a deal for Torreira paying £26.5m to spread the cost of the transfer fee, opposed to simply paying his release clause amount of £22m, as £4.5m seems a hefty additional amount in order to spread the transfer fee. Surely banks would have lent us the money at a far lower cost? Thoughts are that these may have something to do with FFP, hence we need to spread the transfer fee. Thoughts fellow Gooners?

20 Jun 2018 07:32:07
I think the reason for the steep difference in price is because Sampadoria are losing a key player for a big fee, and will want to be able to reinvest that in their squad. So maybe with Arsenal paying them in installments over a number of years, they're unable to do this, so want a higher fee?

20 Jun 2018 07:57:01
Hi Paddy, yes that makes complete sense from Sampdoria's perspective, but why do Arsenal need or want to pay £4.5m more for staggered payment? We have virtually broken even in the transfer market over the last few seasons and have substantial funds in the bank. If we needed to borrow money, the banks would provide funds far cheaper than the additional £4.5m additional sum we will pay Sampdoria. I can only surmise that the way we have staggered payments for signings over the last few seasons has caught up with us from a FFP perspective. Little else makes much sense. Unless the additional sum covers agents fees and we have agreed to pay, provided the transfer fee is staggered?

20 Jun 2018 09:10:34
Really pleased Dick is backing Hector although I know some fans see Belerin the same way I see Xhaka, poor old Steve as he doesn't rate either:-)

20 Jun 2018 09:54:54
Sounds more like they will have more to spend in this windows budget if they spread the cost.