Arsenal Banter Archive August 21 2014

21 Aug 2014 23:15:32
What's the situation with vidal and pogba? I recall Juventus looking like they'd have to sell one of them at the start of the summer. Is this still the case?

{Ed002's Note - Nothing has changed. They will try to avoid selling but are aware that it may not be possible to keep both players.}

21 Aug 2014 22:54:20
I do not hate Olly, at all. I just think he does not really fit into the style of football that would make us devastating. He is a hard-working striker and always gives 100%. But her is what baffles me. Last season, we signed Mesuit Ozil (arguably one of the best final passers in the game today). 25 assist in 2010-2011 at Madrid (most in Europe that year).2011-2012 he had 17 assists in La Liga (most for any player). In 2012-2013, Özil had 26 assists, more than any other player in the leagues. So from the above stats, we do see that Ozil is a player that can play the all important final pass. He was feeding the likes of Ronaldo, Benzema, Di Maria etc who are quite pacey players. And then in the 2013-2014 season, he joined Arsenal FC. Now when he joined us, we all wanted and expected him to be the king of the assist. But he ran into one problem, Olivier Giroud. Ozil has always been the sort of player who revels in playing with pacey strikers in front of him.

Now Olly's best attribute apparently is "holding the ball up" so he brings the midfielders more into play. On the other hand, Mesuit is a player that plays the telling pass from midfield to release speedy strikers into acres of space. When he does this at Arsenal and plays a good through ball to Olly, Olly because of slow pace will not terrorize the opposition defence like Ronaldo and Benzema, but he will rather hold the ball up. So what ever momentum we would have built up with the release pass from Ozil is held up by Olly to allow the midfielders to catch up with him so to speak.

Now the thing is, when you have a striker who holds the ball up and waits for the midfielders to catch up and assist him, then that also allows the defenders who will have initially been caught out of place to recover position such that by the time Olly plays his pass to the wing or back to midfield, the opposition keeper will have a nice wall of at least 4 players in front of him and as such, we always have to reset our attacks by playing the ball back to Arteta unnecessarily thus allowing the opposition to recover.

To cut a long story short, do I hate Olly? NO! Does he have enough dribbling skills? I think he has enough for a striker. Does he have good body strength? Definitely! Does he have good awareness for a striker? Yes! Does he have enough pace to terrorise the defence? Definitely not!

We have arguably the best passer in Ozil. Let us build our attack around him. Let him be the one who holds the ball up. Let him be the one who can slow down play. But once he releases the ball to his wingers and his strikers, we want a serious turn of pace. We want guys who will give defences a tough time just from their pace. For the wing positions we have Alexis, Campbell, Theo, Gnabry and Ox. Podolski and Santi is not the quickest of the pack but they are quick enough to press the opposition defence and Santi is definitely our best dribbler, so whatever he lacks in pace, he makes up for with dribbling and shooting ability.

So, in terms of LW and RW positions, we are well covered with enough pace and skill. Now, for our out and out strikers Olly and Yaya, we have limited mobility. With so much pace on the wings, I think Arsenal would play a deadly counter-attacking game that can be surpassed only by Madrid and Bayern because we have the pace to burn. But we need a striker who is fast enough and clinical enough to make sure that the opportunities created in the counter attack do not go to waste.

So how best do we create a lethal strike force full of pace:

a) Play Sanchez at CF. Make a big offer for Reus preferably or Draxler. Our front 3 would look like this:
Reus Sanchez Walcot (when he returns from injury). Back up for the front 3 will be Podolski, Santi, Ox, Campbell, Olly and Sanogo. Santi and Ox can also be back up for Ozil and Rambo so that they always get enough game time

b. Sign Cavani. Deadly when at Napoli but has been at sea ever since. Will cost an arm and a leg, also has outrageous wages.

For me, I would go option a and sign Reus/Draxler and Carvalho who can play 2 positions.

Trust me gents, once we have a strike force that looks to take on the opposition defence 75% of the time as opposed to holding the ball up and then playing it back to midfield, we will have a higher scoring rate. And also, because Arteta will not be as much involved in the build up play, he will tire less easily and will better position himself when the counter attack does come.

Sorry for the long rant gents, but I feel we are missing a trick up front. Love him or hate him, Balotelli will scare any defence in the premier league. Too bad he's gone to Liverpool now

Cheers

{Ed025's Note - good read that rue mate..

21 Aug 2014 23:24:54
Great post Rue,

Gonna slightly disagree on one point.

Probably the 2 best players in the Arsenal team who would have kept Ozil as 'King of the assists' are Walcott and Rambo, unfortunately they were out for long period's, which impacted on the kind of player Ozil is.

I think Olly needs to be a bit more selfish, like Ronaldo and Benzema, for his sake as well as Ozil's.

There's so much team spirit, Olly is a nice guy. problem is all the great strikers are selfish Tw*ts

I have to disagree that Ballotelli would terrorize a defense, he dint do it at city only terrorized utd, and England, He is a decent buy for pool but not one that would win them or us the title.

21 Aug 2014 22:46:07
Ed025,

Can I just say, on behalf of all of us on here, its an absolute pleasure to have you editing the Arsenal page.

You do an amazing job and you get involved in all the banter.

You are a top Ed and you will be very very very sorely missed.

But please don't stay away for too long, its only a game of football.

Just because we are going to stuff you on Saturday, probably 2 or 3 nil, you are still welcome on this page.

Please dontvbe ashamed to come back

{Ed025's Note - it is only football dags, its not life and death...its much more serious than that mate :)..only kidding, if you do beat us then good luck..

Bloody hell Dags

Steady on

21 Aug 2014 22:58:59
Only joking Ed,

For me, a win at Goodison would rank as a fantastic result and, hopefully, a message of intent.

I agree a win at Goodison ( unlikely ) would be terrific and make people sit up and take notice

21 Aug 2014 21:56:18
Where do we find the next Henry Bergkamp and Vieira?
Who can we afford both wages and fee to fill those fantastic boots?
I know a lot of people enjoy fantasy football but we mustn't get confused between that and the real thing.
Henry? Sanchez and Theo are both ours and could POTENTIALLY do a fair imitation given a chance down the middle.
Bergy? Is there one anywhere in the modern game? Ozil plays a very different role but does posses some of the same quality's.
Vieira? We have no one who can even attempt to do his job which makes for me a DM top middle and bottom of priorities.
Just my opinion of course

{Ed025's Note - ozil and bergkamp both played football for arsenal G62, but im afraid thats where the similarities end mate..

Fair comment Ed mainly I ment touch and ability to find a killer ball, on his debut against Sunderland Ozil took a ball out of the air on the run that immediately reminded me of Bergkamp.

{Ed025's Note - bergkamp is second only to henry as my favourite prem player of all time G62, with shearer third, i wonder who the other guys and jenny would rate their top 3?

21 Aug 2014 22:30:54
Agree G62,

The thing about football supporters, especially the older generation like you and Ed025, (lol), compare the current squad to the squad of yesteryear (I do it all the time).

My Dad, God rest him, use to talk about Bob Wilson, Frank McLintock, Pat Rice, Charlie George, Peter Storey, George Graham and Geordie Armstrong, and use to compare them to the players I use to go and watch.

The likes of Pat Jennings, Sammy Nelson, Graham Rix, Liuam Brady,

21 Aug 2014 22:32:08
Henry, bergkamp and Paul scholes.

21 Aug 2014 22:36:04
Damn, I didn't finish post, hit 'reply' by mistake, lol.

Liam Brady, Frank Stapleton etc.

Now, I tell my son's that the likes of Jack Wilshere, Santi cazorla, Koscielny and Gibbs are not as good as David Seaman, Tony Adams, Nigel Winterburn, Pat Vieira and Thierry Henry.

I think it's hard not to compare players of today with the players we use to watch when we were growing up.

21 Aug 2014 22:37:55
Top 3.

Henry, Bergkamp, Frank Lampard.

Agree Dags some of the old era was superb

In the modern era 3 players stand out

DB IW TH

Those 3 really were a class apart

21 Aug 2014 22:44:13
As a younger gooner (18) I never really saw Berkamp at his best. But Henry, Lampard and Giggs are mine.

Bergkamp comes first for me all day long only player to ever finish 1st 2nd and 3rd in goal of the month comp says it all

You only have to ask Henry who the best player he has played with is and he will tell you DB10 and heny has played with some pretty good players including Messi

Dont get me wrong I love Henry but would he be our top scorer if he didn't play olongside DB10

{Ed025's Note - good point RG, but for me putting the ball in the net is the hardest job in football, thats why they cost the most, and thats why shearer was my No 3...great goalscorer mate..

21 Aug 2014 22:49:41
Ash Bambam,

I forgot about Wrighty.

Legend.

Favorites in order Bergkamp just edges Henry closely followed by Wright
Best I've ever seen Henry /Bergkamp joint first and I hate to say it but Mr nibbles himself is 3rd, dislike the man immensely but the player unbelievable.

21 Aug 2014 23:03:23
Agree with Ed,

From an unbiased view, I would possibly, and I do mean possibly, put Shearer above Henry.

Two great strikers, would win you games on their own, but Shearer was possibly the greatest header of a ball I have ever seen.

I'm not too sure if a football ever touched Henry's head, lol.

{Ed025's Note - i think he scored 5 dags..

21 Aug 2014 23:28:53
Yeah Ed,

I think Henry went to the same 'heading School' as Trevor Brooking. :-)

22 Aug 2014 03:32:41
At the 1994 WC, Bergkamp single handedly kindled my Love of football. Thierry Henry stoked that flame, along with Zinedine Zidane.

I have mates who support Newcastle who openly admit that bergkamp and Henry were both a class above sheerer. Says it all really. In third I'd have, ronaldo

21 Aug 2014 20:45:51
Greetings gunners,
As a Liverpool fan, I would love to hear you voice your opinions on Balotelli. Would he have been the player that you wanted or do you think you have dodged a bullet?

21 Aug 2014 21:08:54
Hi mate,

Balotelli? Marmite, you either love him or hate him.

Personally, I'm glad we didn't go for him.

Loose cannon, disruptive, not a team player, too much trouble.

But, on his day, one hell of a player who can win you games.

Under the right manager/in the right team, he can be world class.

Happy we didn't sign him but would have been equally happy if we did.

Confused? Me too.

I completely agree with you dags. I for one am very happy and I think he will be a success. Then again he could be he complete opposite! (Hoping he isn't the complete opposite though)

Hi DRM if we hadn't got Sanchez I would have loved him personally, he's a gamble we all know that but he will be both entertaining and very exciting at times and yes he will let you down at times too.
But yes a big part of me is jealous you have him and not us

I'd have been very happy if we signed him. Top player. Yes a wild one too but 30 goals in 54 games for Milan, a poor Milan side too says it all about his capabilities. And for £16m! Where else can you buy that quality for that price?

Thing is about him, we can talk about how under the right manager he can become world class, but he's been at several clubs with some of the best managers in the world and he's not been anything other than disruptive anywhere. I'm glad we didn't sign him. I'd much prefer a team player with a good attitude.

We have had some great strikers during the history of this club, and thankfully Ballotelli will not get the chance to be one of them, he only plays for one person, and that's himself.
It will be interesting to see how Rodgers gets on with him.

Playing in Italy, no interest in us signing him! Trouble maker!

Singing for a rival, playing in England.yeah, slightly worried/would have liked him/missed a bargain?!

Same deal with fabregas! Fine without him if he was in Spain. at a rival, different issue all together!

If any one can get the best out of him he could be amazing, BR did well with Suarez, so he might be able to tame him. I would rather have him than Giroud, but I would rather have one foot than have to watch giroud for another season

Liverpool have a wonderful signing

Snigger

21 Aug 2014 20:09:00
Cangun. think you should go to the nearest shop and buy some books and maybe get the hang of reading - I never said Chambers was better than Petit. . just better in the air and better on the ball - Petit was about the best tackler we had in that team (yes even better thanPV) and was an amazingly clever player for covering runs.

21 Aug 2014 20:42:28
Hmmm Exiled, I might be tempted to put Gilberto Silva in same bracket as Petit in terms of tackling.

Not as good going forward though, but defensively, a beast.

Dags,
The invisible wall was indeed a class act! Would not be out of place amongst all the very best midfielders

21 Aug 2014 19:30:30
Vargas to QPR. Right then Dags, sign your new mate Durbs onto the Remy fan club! #BetterThanSanogoal

21 Aug 2014 20:49:00
Durbs,

I have been saying for months mate.

Loic, Remy to you lot, is what we need up front.

Offers us something completely different upfront to Olly.

Pace to burn, plays off the shoulders of the defenders and can finish (1 goal every 2 games playing for average teams).

Can play with Olly, or instead of and I think he will be happy to be a squad player.

£8m, Jeez, no brainer.

If the scousers are paying twice as much for Mad Mario, Remy is worth a punt and proven

21 Aug 2014 22:07:40
Totally agree mate.

I was too ashamed to admit it at first. But i'm sort of on this "Remy boat" too.

If not in the boat I'm definatley swimming alongside it.

21 Aug 2014 22:40:31
Lifeboat for white Rabbit?

21 Aug 2014 18:59:29
Greetings to my favourite bunch of ex-convicts and Jenny :-). Just wanted to hear your thoughts on this. Arsenal lost 17-4 in those 3 terrible games against Liverpool, Citeh and Chelsea. If you were manager, what would grind your gears more than the other?

a) We lost 17-4 because we didn't have a quality DMF

b) We lost 17-4 because we didn't have quality strikers and the opposition strikers did their jobs far much better than ours

I know it was a composite of (a) and (b). Would we have been happier had it been 20-17 goal tally in favour of us over the 3 matches as opposed to say 17-15? Look forward to your responses ;-)

Rue the same will happen again this year if we don't get a DM, not 17-4 but possibly 12-7.

The difference for me is that the other top side each have strikers that will get a goal out of nothing and make the most of the limited chances they have. Costa, Aguero and RVP (Not so sure about Sturridge) are for me strikers that will always take once chance out of 3 half decent ones. Giroud is more like 1 out of 5. When you are creating plenty of chances against lesser opposition it does not really notice but against better sides when you may only get those 3 half decent chances in a whole game it makes all the difference. Put it this way if we had Costa the other night we would have come back with a away win I am sure of it.

Not saying Giroud is a bad player but for me as our sole central striker to lead the line he is just not clinical enough. He would be good as 2nd striker in 4-4-2 to allow a more lethal box player to feed off, But Wenger will never go back to that formation now.

Sanogo not really convinced he will be ever good enough for us and he needs to go out on loan really, he is no decent competition for Giroud at this time anyway.


Podolski and Walcott have both proved ineffective in the past when played as central strikers aswell, just can't hold on the ball poor with back to goal and provide poor box threat from crosses.

I suppose Sanchez could do a job but I think he is a better player out wide anyway with is pace and dribbling skill. Not sure he would be able to cope physically either as our central striker.

This means we are heavily reliant on Giroud to provide that physicality and presence in the box, it is a lot of pressure and a lot of games to rely on him for the whole season. We need another proper central striker without doubt to have a serious challenge for the league, along with a DM and CB.

Hi Rue not sure about the goal tally but if we don't get a quality DM we won't equal our two points total against Chelski and city we got last season, we'll be lucky to get one.
Utd Liverpool? We can possibly get away with it on a good day but 3rd place will be our absolute limit.

21 Aug 2014 20:53:54
For me, it was pretty much they way they torpedoed us from the first whistle.

We were 2/3/4-0 down before we even touched the ball.

21 Aug 2014 20:57:58
The other way to look at it if it weren't for those games we would have conceded less than 20goals

I think we are simply making a meal out of things, time and again both Wenger and Ramsey have mentioned they dint perform well against the top teams, the lesser sides not so much of a problem. So I am sure we will not see a repeat of what happened last and grab some points instead.

21 Aug 2014 17:45:15
Man city - Aguero, dzeko, jovetic
Man U - RvP, Rooney
Chelsea - Costa, Drogba
Liverpool - Sturridge, Balotelli
Arsenal - Giroud, Sanogo

says a lot doesn't it

{Ed027's Note - you've forgot Sanchez

. and Walcott, and Podolski.

But hey, who wants to be realistic? Let all spout the same sensationalist rhetoric that we read in the papers.

21 Aug 2014 19:20:35
obviously my point wasnt very well put across, its that the other teams fighting for the top have at least 2 top class strikers, we don't. but will sanchez be played as a striker ed?, anyway even if he is I still think we're short up front to really compete, peace

{Ed025's Note - he can play there pro, but i agree with you that there is still room for one more..

21 Aug 2014 20:05:07
I have to agree with Pro here. Although we have Campbell, Walcott, Sanchez and Podolski, none of these players are true centre forwards like the other teams have. While we have Giroud, he is obviously not World Class, while Sanogo isn't even Championship class.

I was super excited at the start of the window when Wenger surprised us all and signed some real class early. Since then he has been back to the old Wenger and seems to be looking for bargains. I am gutted that Liverpool will sign a world class striker like Balotelli for such a small price even with his poor attitude history.

I am getting really worried whether we will sign a CDM and a CF despite the confidence of some if the Eds. We are so close to being able to compete for the title, but if we rely on Arteta/Diaby and Sanogo we will only get 4th.

Come on Wenger, finish what you started!

First off, Campbell is yet to have a game for Arsenal and should be taken out of this argument until he's had a chance at CF.

Secondly I would love to know which World Class striker everybody see's so readily available to come and join us?

The opportunity is there certainly to strengthen our striking options but ready made 30 plus goals a season strikers are a rarity these days and selfishly guarded by their clubs.

Look what Barca paid for a player who can't even play for them for months and has the disciplinary record of a primary school child.

I understand the point people are making but realistically Giroud is as decent as is available and worthy of his squad place.

21 Aug 2014 21:01:53
But hey who wants to contribute to the site with regular conversation when you can just pop up for the first time n how long and act sarcastic? @ dicky

I feel (hope) there is good stuff lined up, just waiting on the champs league qualifier to be done and dusted.
Happened last year after we got through. Seems has been an issue with Man U and some players needing CL! Let's hope next week is a catalyst

21 Aug 2014 17:07:15
Banbury mate. On the Giroud subject below.No need to run for cover.Its a fair question. you are asking me. I've got to start by saying that this is my opinion forget about stats this that and the other i'm purely commenting on ability and my passion for the club. Anyhow Giroud is ok i'm not saying he isnt. But I am saying he is a million miles away from what I would want to see as our main striker at Arsenal. For instance. If I was a football manager and we were playing Arsenal Giroud would not make me shake in my boots on how to deal with him. If on the other hand Arsenal had strikers of the calibre that we should have then! it would be a different scenario all together.
Which now unfortunately brings me on to Sanogo again and I didn't want to talk about him but anyway!. He scored 4 goals in the Emirates cup, tap ins. Ok he had to be in the position to get them in the first place. But apart from that I don't see what in the world he is doing at Arsenal. If Arsene thinks he has something about him then put him out on loan. For me he is not even good enough to be a premiership player let alone an Arsenal player. If Sanogo is the best back up striker we have at the moment how bad are the rest of them? I would like to see us with a striker that makes the opposition sit up and take note a striker that makes us look serious up front. Where are all the Bergkamps, Wrights, Henrys.
etc we were known for? Ok Henry had to develop but you could see he had something about him from the get go. These players were different class, legends. Why are we not paying for future legends we have the money now so let's utilise it. No team has been succesful because they relied on their defenders scoring the goals.
We need players like Ozil, Sanchez, Kos, Mert they are class acts. Arsenal is a massive club we should be having the best players available. This is how I would like to see it mate.

{Ed025's Note - good post that golds..and very fair imo...

I agree with you Golds, we are lacking real teeth upfront.

Totally agree. Even Walcott would scare defences more than Giroud.

It is a fair post mate

Agree wholeheartedly golds let's just hope prof has something up his sleeve

Sweet post that, giroud is decent that's all, he has his good days but he also has his awful days ie besiktas, where he looked an absoloute fool where everything was bouncing off him. sanogo looks like he isn't even a footballer, would he get into city, chelsea, liverpool teams? of course not, he wouldn't even get into the spurs team. imo arsene really needs to invest in a solid ST

21 Aug 2014 20:55:59
Damn fine post Golds.

21 Aug 2014 13:53:51
Oh noooooooooo! Liverpool have agreed Balotelli's 16m fee!! him and Danny Sturridge will be dangerous. I feel we missed out on this one

Thank the lord

Not a fan Banbury?

:) no I am not

21 Aug 2014 12:30:04
Injuries: Walcott, Arteta, Sanogo, Gibbs, Gnabry, Diaby, Miyaichi & Ospina. Not bad so far this season!
We clearly need 2 more defenders and at least one defensive midfield players, ideally two.

Luckily several of those are not crucial

Loool Banbury. Wait till we get an injury to Monreal and Scezney in the Everton game. Then we will see how non-crucial they are :-)

21 Aug 2014 10:52:26
Looks like Ballotelli is off to liverpool. Fee believed to be £17.5 Million.

Do you think we should have taking a chance on him or is there to much risk?

Id imagine this one will divide opinions. he's an absoloute talent but the man is nuts.

21 Aug 2014 12:37:11
I think the wages are a stumbling block. 160k is alot

Signing balotelli leaves us at a risk eventually.

he does not track back or defend, but yes if he is in the mood he is one hell of a player.

we got the forward player we wanted in sanchez, we need the winger now to make sanchez our CF, and I know its almost as unlikely as us signing messi but Reus should be that player.

im hoping we can land a DM to strenghten our midfield, we are still lacking that key player.

lets hope its khedira, as it may give us some edge with reus, although it seems barca are trying to do a deal for him this summer.

Ya a lot of people are saying that a striker is the most important position, but a striker wasnt the reason we conceded 6 at city 5 at liverpool and another bucket load at stamford bridge. Chelsea mid ran through Arteta and the Arsenal midfield like it wasnt there. the sad thing is Chelsea are better this year too.

A DM is the main priority for me and a 8-10 mllion cb (which looks to be Manolas)

i think a striker will have to wait another year. we are in need of one but with walcott coming back it is not as important as a DM. Khedira bender or carvhalo I don't mind.

Just need one of them and it will be our greatest transfer window in the last 15+ years.

21 Aug 2014 07:26:41
So will manalos be a gooner today? We certainly need options as time is running out.

21 Aug 2014 02:12:03
olli plus cash for cavani?
wats u say gunners?

In a heartbeat.

Oli free plus full amount for cavani also

Depends how much cash!