Arsenal Banter Archive May 23 2013

23 May 2013 22:02:14
I posted a rather long and waffling (unnamed) piece on here a few days back about my summer wishlist; Cesar, Williams, Gonalons, Jovetic, Sanogo, Higuain, Piszczek all mentioned. But I've been looking at the highlights of the last ten games of the season and I fear I may have gone over the top.

Now obviously, every Arsenal fan worth their salt knows we need additions. But there are some areas in which I think people overplayed the importance a bit - for instance the holding midfield role. It has long been argued that the reason for Arsenal's defensive frailty has been our lack of a true defensive midfielder and how this has been the case since Flamini, Gilberto and Vieira (though the latter was more box-to-box, but you get my drift). Anyway, my point is that in the last ten, and even sixteen, games of the season, nobody complained about our lack of a holding midfielder. Having watched them back, there could even be a case for bypassing the need for one.

I may be coming across as a bit blasé about what we require to compete with not only fluidity but with confidence, but I genuinely think that after taking a close look at the role Arteta and Ramsey played in the run-in, an out-and-out defensive midfielder is not necessarily the answer. Long had fans been bemoaning the lack of defensive coverage given to our attacking fullbacks. When they've charged forward, it was left to players such as the lazy Alex Song to track back, being central defensive midfielders. But let's face it, Song was anything but - a deep-lying box-to-box midfielder at best. However, the way in which Arteta and Ramsey dovetailed so beautifully in both attack and defence gave me a thought.

With Arteta, you've got a regista - obviously nowhere near the standard of Pirlo or Xavi but plays an almost identical role. Dictating play, short and sharp passing but often the furthest central midfielder back. He participated in very few attacks which is why, for me, the majority of his goals have been from the penalty spot this season. He hasn't had the freedom to drive forward and score from outside like he did against City and Wigan last season, and he also hasn't had the liberty of arriving in a Lampard-esque fashion outside the box like against West Brom and Blackburn last season. However, the role he's been playing this season is arguably tantamount to the functionality of our midfield - Arteta is the metronome to our possession football. Our Wengerball, if you will.

Pair him with Ramsey and you've got something special. I love Aaron Ramsey but even I will admit he's not the most talented nor technically gifted. But he's got bundles of energy and a real drive to get back and help the defence. We've seen it time and time again this season when paired with Arteta - his young legs do the hard yards with Arteta there to pick up the pieces and start an attack. This double-pivot mechanism in the midfield which plays to both their strengths is something we've only seen reap rewards in the latter part of this season, but I'd argue that had it been there for the majority of the season, we'd have had a really solid year. Indeed, if we were to have our regista and our box-to-box ball of energy next season, would we really need a big, strong holding midfielder which people crave? For me, having seen the results of our run-in with this duo in the midfield, I'd say that we've got enough discipline there to be getting along with.

However, as I've said - as much as I love Ramsey, I don't think that at the moment he is quite good enough to maintain a spot in the starting XI for us to challenge. Technical ability combined with a shuttle-runner is what we require, somebody who would hassle attackers doggedly to slow down the counter attacks but also with the panache to drive from the midfield third, about twenty or thirty yards, to get our own attacks started. Personally, the ideal player for this role is Dortmund's Ilkay Gundogan. He, more often than not, plays in the two of their 4-2-3-1 alongside either Bender or Kehl. Now obviously they're both a lot more disciplined as they are true central defensive midfielders, but I think that if we were to work to the same 4-2-3-1 as Dortmund do, we'd have something special.

However, we'd also have an abundance of talent to fit into the midfield. Think about it;

Arteta - Gundogan
Walcott - Wilshere - Cazorla

For me, this is alright. However, as good as Cazorla has been in the left midfield role, I adore him as a trequartista. He did this perfectly early in the season, displayed no better than in his hattrick against Reading. This would also mean dropping our talismanic Jack Wilshere. I'd be loathe dropping him back into the two and sacrificing Arteta, because although we'd arguably have two of the best shuttlers in the game, we'd lack a certain stability which Mikel Arteta undoubtedly brings.

With Chamberlain growing into much the same role as Gundogan (technical, great vision, good skill, pace, energy, driving runs) it would mean a flock of central midfield talent. And again, I'd be irritated if we signed a player who pushes out English talent which needs nurturing. So, as much as I'd like Gundogan, I think it'd be better to keep our deep-lying box-to-box runners as Ramsey, Wilshere and, later, Chamberlain. If we can instil some more defensive contributions to the latter, we'll have arguably the best three British central midfielders. While they can't all play at the same time, their versatility is excellent and so nurturing their role as a shuttler can only be a good thing.

The concept of a double pivot does seem better than one true defensive midfielder,
i suppose we can change the type of pivot we have in midfields (defensive would be Arteta/Ramsey, attacking would be Jack/Arteta etc etc)
really fits in with the fluidity of our team

great post GM7

Pdoty

I think Ramsey and Gundogan are very similar players. I love the idea of the doube pivot, it really suits our style and 4-3-3 set-up.

Ramsey and Wilshere can be the two in that double pivot.

Wilshere Ramsey
Walcott Jovetic Cazorla
Giroud

24 May 2013 06:58:01
Nice post again,

Thing is with Wenger, he does show a lot of faith, some times to much for maybe the wrong player, this makes me think he might not see the need to bring in the CDM we all believe we need.

Do you see a like for like replacement for Arteta in the squad or could that be the position, in relation to his age, that we need to bring in a new player.

I don't think we could go wrong with the other players you mentioned because strength in depth is what we're lacking most right now.

Stoner

Aĺl well and good but a couple of points. For one we haven't played any of the top teams recently and it's fair to say we've not done well against them and maybe the lack of proper def mid is the reason. A midfield of jack and Ramsey would be exposed against better teams I fear. Second is that its good to have a diverse squad and this is one type of player we don't have. It gives you ooptions. Thirdly I think a def midfield is the only was to play if you want cazorla and jack in the middle. Balance is wrong otherwise.

It seems a defensive two infront of the defence and behind the `flair` players is where us and the majority of teams are heading. To play Wilshire there unfortunately restricts his natural game which is carrying the ball at players and forcing defenders to commit. The core of the problem is, Ramsay isn't good enough to sit alongside Arteta. Many of us were saying this last year and nothing has changed. The creative side of our game is almost complete as regards the midfield (Wilshire, Cazorla, Chamberlain, Walcott, Podolski, Rosicky etc) however we still lack muscle against teams our standard, this has to be solved this pre-season.

/Son1ka

Very good post, I think people are forgetting that we have Coquelin who can easily play in the role when necessary, he links up well with arteta and although he lacks a real physical presence he never stops working

23 May 2013 20:00:49
hi
hope we sign lukaku and benteke.
and. say goodbye to our mighty Wally W.
(pretty unlikely, I guess)
COYG andi:)

23 May 2013 18:14:21
As long as I can remember, Arsenal have never done their transfer dealings in public. We may now have some cash to splash, but I see no reason why that will change.

Jovetic and Higuain are simply a smokescreen, and I would be 99% certain neither are coming to Arsenal. Fingers crossed though for some major signings this window.

Im with you on that one mate. 8 times out of 10 an Arsenal signing is an out of the blue signing.

Expect a surprise or two

Spot on!

arsenal keep their transfer business private in order to not attract attention from big spending clubs

I too think we will sign quality players but you will never see us splash cash and overpay for players it simply will not happen

Trinidad-Gooner

23 May 2013 19:32:04
You've only got to think back to all the different players we were linked with and hoping for in January, never got one of them but up pops Monreal from nowhere.

Won't be any different this summer, won't stop us wishing, asking the eds or wildly speculating though either.

Stoner

Completely agree. The greatest of all was when sol Campbell signed. Mystic Meg didn't even see that coming

24 May 2013 09:48:54
we have been signing some very average players in past years just to reach that top 4 spot. we are way behind from top1. somwhere 20 points short and we always have a struggle in the end to reach the 4th spot. courtsey of some inconsistent performance from other teams.
we should go out an dbring 3 world class players of 20 mill each who could get us the title.
sell gervinho, giroud, sagna and arteta.
need an excellent goal scoring machine. like higuain.
need someone like jovetic to play behind the striker which gives us so many options goiong forward

23 May 2013 14:50:01
Hey there people and EDs

so its yet another summer madness incoming.
let the show begin. don't forget people. take it easy ;)

Anyway: lot of rumours going around russia that we're chasing Rasmus Elm from Dynamo (?) Moscow.

Looks like a guy with a great kicking technique from the videos I saw. Also. seems to play in central midfield. DMF even? Like the prospect of him.

Got any info concerning our interest, eds?

good hunting you guys

ASyD {Ed027's Note - Nothing mate

Rasmus is a central midfielder and not good enough for a PL team who wants the title.

23 May 2013 22:35:04
Never ever ever good enough to play for Arsenal.

23 May 2013 13:47:30
I don't think it is fair to say our stikers haven't been clinical this season. For me, our wing play has been poor. Theo was fantastic going for goal from the wing, but providing service for our strikers, not rily. Get Ox on the wing or if not then Isco. Also get Jovetic to play on the wing. Theo, Podolski and Giroud can be our strikers

23 May 2013 11:29:09
Ed, with it likely lewandowski joining bayern do you see arsenal making a move for gomez?

he could be the great finisher we need in and around the box. he may be a giroud type player but has a lot more quality. his stats at bayern are:

2012/13 pl 30 g 17
2011/12 pl 52 g 41
2010/11 pl 45 g 39
2009/10 pl 45 g 14 {Ed007's Note - Dortmund would rather not sell Lewandowski to Bayern Munich, I will be surprised if he makes that move. I don't see Gomez pitching up at Arsenal either, sorry.}

23 May 2013 12:39:49
i believe this will be a terrible transfer window dor us this year! why? well we have money to spend but I think most players know our club and how we operate and will be unwilling to come as, they want to win things! i'm not saying we won't win things or we don't have ambitions to win things but players will look at previous years attitudes and performances and be put of I think! I do believe we nowhave a slightly different attidude after years of penny pinching, but just becuase we state that we are going to make changes in wage structures. transfer fews and ambitions going forward doesn't mean players will believe it, which is why I think they will hesitate in joining us!also players see that there are 3 clubs in england with what seems endless pots of money and that mskes it harder for us to compete with them!
R. D

Jeez, talk about depressing!

So what you are saying is that all the top class players will only join utd or Chelski or maybe Wigan because they win things?

Get behind your club, we are still the Mighty Arsenal and players will still come.

Think there's an element of truth to this, although I do feel we have the appeal to attract the majority of the biggest players. They can't all go to United, City, Chelsea, Barca, Marid and Bayern. Pity we don't still have David Dein around though to make sure these players come.

W12Gooner

Im not being depressed about it! just an observation! we could not go out now and buy neymar! fullstop, he would not come for whatever money! but if we won the leauge for the next 2 seasons which I believe is possible the chances of neymar joining would be increased if that makes sense! ( i'm only using neymar as an example i'm not suggesting we r going to buy him )
RD

Totally agree with your assesment. If you are a world class player - Arsenal are a risk. Man U, Chelsea and City can pretty much guarantee you will be in the mix for major honours. Arsenal can't - they barely scraped into 4th place this year. Also, knowing that the top 3 will strenghthen significantly again leaves Arsenal lookng like the riskier option. So if we are unwilling to outbid them in terms of wages offered - I can only see us being linked with a lot of top players who ultimately end up elsewhere. Second tier players seems more realistic.

23 May 2013 10:37:25
What I love about my Arsenal is that the "Obvious" never applies when it comes to transfers. Always expect the unexpected even as cliché as it may sound! I'm just hoping we can keep this group together for a sustained period of time, God knows we can't keep rebuilding every season. I think a lot of you will agree with this.


Usmanov jnr.

23 May 2013 07:46:06
Staggering stat this,
Arsenal with the pairing of Koscielny and Mertesacker we have ket 7 clean sheets and haven't lost ANY games.
Incredible IMO

Agreed!

B

That's why we need to offer kos an improved contract lively before bayern come sniffing around