Arsenal Banter Archive November 24 2016

24 Nov 2016 21:59:19
Kos? Still great moments as always but I can't remember seeing him make so many sloppy mistakes in such a short space of time as he has the last few games.

25 Nov 2016 07:52:21
I think in the past few games we have been so poor offensively, it's made us vulnerable defensively.

That said, I thought he played well against PSG.

24 Nov 2016 08:12:14
There is one player we can't replace in our team. any time he is injured we go on a torrid run. our title challenge ended when santi got injured last season. would be great if wenger signed a replacement for him. verratti would be ideal but impossible. isco wouldn't be bad either. And why does ramsey start over xhaka? xhaka is by far the superior player technically. we drew the united game because we played ramsey on the wing. He us no good. poor touch, his positional play is shocking leaves the defence exposed. ramsey needs to be on the nench. sibce he came back we seem to be drawing games.

24 Nov 2016 14:26:10
you do know that sani plays DLP and isco is a number 10 or winger duno how you can say what you said if you know anything about football.

24 Nov 2016 16:20:13
Santi was a number 10 or a winger until 2 years ago. So I don't know you can say what you said without knowing anything about football prior to 2014.

24 Nov 2016 16:58:04
Santi used to play no10, you may not agree with punanis choice of isco, that's his opinion and nothing to do with not understanding football. I personally wouldn't have isco there but again that's an opinion. Our great manager put ramsay on the left wing, are you saying he knows nothing about football, he's a cental midfielder and right footed.

24 Nov 2016 19:23:36
Give the Ox a chance in the middle during Caz absence, he's got a lot more of what's needed than Aaron to partner Le Coq and I think would do a great job in between the boxes for us.

24 Nov 2016 19:47:33
Gunner remind me again why did we spend 35 big ones on xhaka.

24 Nov 2016 20:56:14
Xhaka might well prove a good we signing one day Steve but to me right now he doesn't fit in anywhere with how we play.

25 Nov 2016 15:41:05
I think the original post was clearly referring to Caz being irreplaceable in recent seasons, in other words - since he's been brought further back in midfield than his old number 10 position. That's why Isco wouldn't be a sensible replacement, he's a great player but he'd be looking to replace someone further up like Ozil if we were to buy him.

25 Nov 2016 16:34:18
Tpg, that also explains why that left side isn't as effective and he struggles to score goals. We don't defend the left side of midfield well and iwobi doesn't put many crosses in, is wenger asking too much of him. i'm not knocking iwobi by the way.

25 Nov 2016 16:06:00
What's a DLP? Damaged ligaments Player 👍🏻.

25 Nov 2016 16:23:20
People get nasty. Let's look at our greatest ever goal scorer . He was a winger . Stupid wenger maybe if he played more Fifa he would have kept Henry on the wings.

25 Nov 2016 16:40:04
I like the idea of that G62 but remember he's a winger lol.

24 Nov 2016 01:01:46
someone said a while ago "who do we miss the most when not in the team"

I said santi cazorla!

we miss him so bad, he turns defence to attack better than anyone.

since he has been injured we have look like half the team we did!

we miss you santi.

24 Nov 2016 05:15:40
Said the same a few weeks ago, we should get someone like Isco in now so that they can have Cazorla around for a while helping them bed in.
Last season we imploded when Cazorla was injured.

24 Nov 2016 06:53:16
Yes, we do really miss the creativity of Santi. Wilshere would have been an ideal option to replace Santi, but I believe he is on loan for the entire season. I would like to see more from Xhaka, clearly a talented player who would no doubt benefit from Wenger showing more faith in him by gaining him a run of matches to allow him to gain confidence. He clearly has the range of passing in him. I wonder if we would benefit from a change in formation, as our players don't really fit well into the current set up. Ideally in the current system we need to play two DM players in front of the back four, from which we can choose from Coquelin, Xhaka and Elneny. Wide right, we have Walcott and Ox. Wide left we have Sanchez and Iwobi. The problem is in the centre where we usually play Ozil, but Ramsey is best suited to this role, opposed to being played wide or deeper in a DM role. This central attacking midfield role also suits the absent Wilshere. Where the problem arises is that Wenger likes to play Cazorla, Ozil and Ramsey when they are all fit. This means that Santi plays deeper where he has to make more tackles and risks more injuries which started when playing in this role against Norwich and have continued ever since with his achilles problems following the knee injury. Ramsey looks far better in a freerer attacking midfield role as seen when playing for Wales and Ozil clearly looks best in this central position. I thought we lacked the pace of Walcott and Ox last night and Sanchez played more centrally, depsite Giroud's recent scoring form, may have unsettled the PSG defence more. I wonder whether we would have obtained a better result of we played Walcott, Sanchez and Ox as the attacking three?

{Ed001's Note - why is Cazorla playing deeper a problem? He is at his best there. His history has always been riddled with these niggling injuries, so I am not sure that is anything to do with playing deeper. It is not just that Cazorla is at his best deeper, Arsenal are at their best when he is there.}

24 Nov 2016 06:53:16
Yes, we do really miss the creativity of Santi. Wilshere would have been an ideal option to replace Santi, but I believe he is on loan for the entire season. I would like to see more from Xhaka, clearly a talented player who would no doubt benefit from Wenger showing more faith in him by gaining him a run of matches to allow him to gain confidence. He clearly has the range of passing in him. I wonder if we would benefit from a change in formation, as our players don't really fit well into the current set up. Ideally in the current system we need to play two DM players in front of the back four, from which we can choose from Coquelin, Xhaka and Elneny. Wide right, we have Walcott and Ox. Wide left we have Sanchez and Iwobi. The problem is in the centre where we usually play Ozil, but Ramsey is best suited to this role, opposed to being played wide or deeper in a DM role. This central attacking midfield role also suits the absent Wilshere. Where the problem arises is that Wenger likes to play Cazorla, Ozil and Ramsey when they are all fit. This means that Santi plays deeper where he has to make more tackles and risks more injuries which started when playing in this role against Norwich and have continued ever since with his achilles problems following the knee injury. Ramsey looks far better in a freerer attacking midfield role as seen when playing for Wales and Ozil clearly looks best in this central position. I thought we lacked the pace of Walcott and Ox last night and Sanchez played more centrally, depsite Giroud's recent scoring form, may have unsettled the PSG defence more. I wonder whether we would have obtained a better result of we played Walcott, Sanchez and Ox as the attacking three?

{Ed001's Note - why is Cazorla playing deeper a problem? He is at his best there. His history has always been riddled with these niggling injuries, so I am not sure that is anything to do with playing deeper. It is not just that Cazorla is at his best deeper, Arsenal are at their best when he is there.}

24 Nov 2016 08:47:11
Hi Ed001 - Santi badly injured his knee last season playing in the deeper role, as a result of a poor challenge by a Norwich player. This resulted in an operation to a knee ligament. Upon his return, as a result of the injury and op, he had an achilles problem. This problem reoccurred following a challenge whilst playing in the deeper role against Ludogorets last October and he looks no closer to returning any time soon and has gone to Barcelona in an attempt to cure the problem. Of course he is superb playing in this role, but the type of injury he picked up playing deep is more common there, as more tackles have to be made. Coquelin also picked up a long term knee ligament injury playing deep last season. However Coquelin is a DM player, so such injuries go with the territory. Having played football to a high standard, I had one major injury during my career and guess what, it was a knee ligament injury that out me out for most of a season, playing as a DM. You tend to tackle more in this role and make many block tackles, that can open up the knee joint. The thing with Santi is that he is excellent played further forward as well, the problem is that we have Ozil in this role. Incidentally Wilshere was also played in the deeper role and has an awful injury history. The simple fact with Santi is that he will be 32 years of age next month and in order to prolong his career and avoid the type of injuries he has been getting recently, he needs to play further forward where he can be equally effective, but avoid defensive challenges that are injuring him. Wilshere has been injury free during his period at Bournemouth and I was wondering whether he is playing in a more advanced role?

{Ed001's Note - sorry but there is no evidence to suggest that anything you have said is in any way true. One injury by you playing is not enough. I have read countless, and I do mean countless, papers on injuries, injury causes and injury prevention across numerous sports, the bigger problem is a lack of fitness or lack of rest. There is very little to suggest that playing in a central midfield role causes them, as Robert Pires will no doubt attest.

Cazorla has a history of injuries, which always lead to more injuries, especially as a body's chronological age and training age advance past their peak. There is just as much chance he will pick up injuries further forward, where he will usually be expected to make more sprints, which are a major cause of injuries. There is also more chance of him being tackled in a way that will cause the knee joint to open up and cause an injury.

Wilshere is playing a mixed role, he has played both CM and AM plus once on the right. It is not the main reason for his injuries clearing up though, it is most likely. There is more chance that his training routine is better for him there, as Howe pushes his players harder, making them fitter. Wilshere has always been lacking in fitness at Arsenal, mainly due to lifestyle, but partially down to Wenger's reluctance to push the players as hard as some other managers.}

24 Nov 2016 09:03:40
Wenger change formation?

Never to set in his ways!

We won all all main titles playing 442 and won next to nothing playing 451, don't understand why he sticks with it.

We could play 442 with ozil playing lw but cutting in like marhez last season. We would be much better imo. Giroud up top with sanchez could work. Don't understand why Wenger has never tried this?

24 Nov 2016 09:31:47
Ed001 - I think we will have to beg to differ on this one. The evidence is there for all to see as he was injured playing deep last season and he missed a large chunk of last season and the same is happening this season. Of course injuries occur in all positions, but DM players making more block tackles tend to pick up more ligament injuries in general than players played in more attacking midfield roles who tend to suffer more muscular injuries. Yes he can be tackled playing further forward, but he would have the option of releasing the ball early to avoid being tackled and he would have less chance of being involved in a block tackle, as they are rarer when playing in the attacking midfield position where the tackles are more often not block tackles with a players feet anchored, they are in motion and players feet are often not anchored as a sweeping motion doesn't cause as many ligament type injury. There is the argument that Wenger doesn't condition his players sufficiently and hence they pick up more injuries, but this relates to muscular type injuries opposed to impact injuries, such as Cazorla's picked up at Norwich last season. Indeed the Toot are believed to be far better conditioned by Pochettino and yet this season their injury record hasn't been great.

{Ed001's Note - you are showing your ignorance, as none of that has any basis in truth and shows you are talking crap. Injuries of all kinds are more likely if you are less well conditioned, including impact type. If you are not at your optimum, there is more chance of picking up any kind of injury, such as the knee injury suffered by Pires I mentioned earlier. He did not have his feet anchored, he, in fact, was trying to get out of the way, but still suffered an ACL injury.

The final bit proves your complete ignorance as Spurs have a mere 3 injuries while Arsenal have twice as many! Just quit while you are not too far behind for once, please. You clearly just go on anecdotal evidence and have not taken the time to actually do any real research. To help you out I will link a starter paper for you to begin doing some valid research: research paper on injury cause, prevention and training please use it as the basis of finding out some genuine facts. There are plenty more studies linked at the bottom of the paper, that you can use for further reading.}

24 Nov 2016 09:35:01
We really do mate.

24 Nov 2016 10:16:39
Ed01
So does Wenger / out team get it wrong
Don't push them enough in training but then over play them in matches? Pires was an example of us playing him when we should have rested him - I remember Wenger saying he had regret over Pires.
Is that why players like DB10 and (touch wood) Ozil get / got less injuries because they did extra training themselves just like the beast Sanchez.
Do we walm players up enough and take them off soon enough?
Do we let too many players decide when they are "fit" to play.
Is this just an Arsenal issue or general pressure of EPL?
Sorry for the Qs but you sparked my interest.

{Ed001's Note - according to the latest research, yes the team is not being pushed hard enough in training, plus some of the players are not professional enough, ie Wilshere. Wenger treats them like adults and trusts them to behave off the pitch, but the club really need to put more work into keeping tabs on them.

The extra training is added to a better off field attitude, taking more rest rather than going out on the lash all night like most British players do. Ozil and Sanchez tend not to go out regularly, and if they do they are not getting hammered and having to be helped home afterwards.

Compare Sanchez's injury history with that of Arturo Vidal, for instance. Vidal likes to party, which has left his muscles fatigued, when they should be rested, and led to a couple of long term knee issues. Vidal trains hard, but also parties hard, which is just as harmful as not training hard enough. Which is why Arsenal's injuries are usually amongst the worst, because they undertrain and a number of the players are not resting and recovering properly.

As for the Prem as a whole, the main issue nowadays is the party one, as so many of the players just want to go out on the lash. They are fatigued due to lack of rest, which then increases the risk of injury. That adds to the less mileage etc covered in pre-season training to leave players vulnerable to knocks, sprains etc.}

24 Nov 2016 14:16:13
Ed001 - I find it odd that you can't agree to differ and start being rude. To clarify points; I played football to a high level. I have a medical qualification. I discuss football injuries with my sister who is a qualified physiotherapist and one of the world's leading authorities on hydrotherapy. Indeed, she treats sportsman regularly. I have had many conversations regarding injuries with a good friend who is a chiropractor and we came to the conclusion that the many muscualr injuries suffered by Arsenal players are down to conditioning and this season they seem to be reducing. What I am discussing here is Cazorl'a current injury which came as a result of the impact injury he sustained last season against Norwich, That wasn't down to conditioning, it was as a result of a bad tackle whilst playing in the deeper roel and hence my commments. His achilles problem arose at the time he was returning from his knee operation and was not down to conditioning. This injury flared up as a result of an impact against Ludogorets. My theory stands up to any sensible scrutiny, that is playing defensive midfield means tackling more and in a different way to playing fiurther forward. As an ageing player it makes sense to minimise the risk of injury by managing him sensibly. The comment you make about Tottenham's injury record is based on the current injury situation, but they have been without Rose, Alderweirald, Kane, Lamela, Dembele, Alli and others during the opening 3 and a bit moths of the season. So please be sensible in your arguments or simply beg to differ, bit don't be rude, it is the surest way you know when a person is wrong, as they get angry. By the way I would like to thank you for actually allowing me to discuss this as some other Ed's simply get angry and won't place comments on this site. We can after disagree as long as we are not abusive, which I haven't been.

{Ed001's Note - again point proven, pure anecdotal evidence from a small sample of people. Give up, you are only proving my point.}

24 Nov 2016 19:24:10
Ok - a well conditioned footballer who walms up properly and respects their body by eating, drinking and resting will get less injuries, suffer less severe injuries and recover quicker. Makes sense.
Players that don't therefore put their body at risk and then risk more injuries from follow on injuries plus age.
Some injuries happen due to bad tackles / bad luck. If you invite tackles then you increase your risk, if you are in the thick of it then you increase your risk.
Overall - most injuries are conditioning related and impacts older players more

Fair? Missed the point?

Ed - thanks for the great reply to my question.

Sounds like Wenger bouted out the drink culture but gives players too much respect which can be poorly placed - on and off the pitch. seems to be his philosophy and works really well with a disciplined and professional team but can lead to issues on / off pitch if not. We have seen this on and off the pitch.

{Ed001's Note - it usually works better with the continentals, as their culture is not one of binge drinking. And thank you.}