Arsenal Banter Archive June 25 2015

 

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25 Jun 2015 22:58:18
Mark Lawrenson is right young players get far too much money far too soon for their own or the games sake.
I think clubs across europe should come to an agreement not to pay player money than say £2000 a week up until the age of 21 and then they would be free to earn as much as they can get.
This would give them a better grounding and allow the likes of Raheem Stirling to concentrate on his football rather than his finances I'm sure he would have a better career for it long term.
Undoable? Not at all it just wouldn't be easy to implement it or enforce it but with uafa and all the clubs backing it could and should be done.

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25 Jun 2015 23:32:04
Totally agree.

I'm all for player development, if you are old enough, than you are good enough, but years ago, players like Sterling would be earning £1000 per week and cleaning the boots of players like Dalglish.

Now, they all have 5 bed mansions, drive Ferrari's, earn £30,000 per week and haven't even played for the first team yet.

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26 Jun 2015 00:48:39
How is a young player ever going to manage on £2000 a week. They will end up begging after training and get into a life of crime, all because you want to deprive them of 100 000 a week, which they might just manage to survive on until they reach 25 and can then earn a more comfortable 300 000.

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26 Jun 2015 02:44:59
G62,

I think that is too simple an argument.

(Leaving aside whether the fans and advertisers should pay the insane amount of money into the game)

There is x amount of money in the game. It goes either to the players or the owners. It is just a question on how the pie is split up.

Why should Arsenal or any other club get a free ride from a player just because he is young? (See the problems that result from that exploitation in US College Sports).

I think that players get paid very well for their job, but I am not more inclined to see the owners get more of the football money (it is not coming back to the fans or the advertisers, so I wish people would stop blaming the players for being greedy - no both the owners and the players are greedy it is about finding a balance that works for both sets of greed).

How much the players gets paid should be purely market driven - regardless of age.

The homegrown rule has only made the wages issue worse for young players. A young player because he does not count towards the squad number and may potentially be homegrown (by training, birth, or both) is in a privileged position if he is skilled, because the team gets a player that does not count towards their squad number and can help them win games and when he does count towards their squad number he is probably homegrown and not in the foreign quota.

Of course, the top clubs want a young player like that - and if the big boys want you. You get paid more.

The other issue is footballers do not have what we consider full careers. They are always a horror tackle away from their last contract (except at Arsenal). Best case scenario they play from their late teens to early - mid thirties. They want to earn as much money as they can as anyone would.


Now I agree he has gone about it like a jerk and you can call him on that, but not at wanting to get paid what he is worth. Show me the money!!!!

Now do not get me wrong, I think that the players union should set up a pension plan so that some of the wages are saved up for players, who may not otherwise do it themselves.

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26 Jun 2015 09:36:22
James R,

I'm a United fan and come in peace.
Love reading through all the rumours and banter pages as it's great to hear everyones view on this so and so and that so and so.
I have to say, your post above is top notch. Wish people would entertain what you're saying a bit more before blaming the players. My best friend who i've known since i was 11, has graduated from a said accademy and plays in the highest tier of English football. He has told me a few snippets and things over the years that make you open your eyes up that little bit more with regards to the football off the pitch.
Anyways, thanks for the read.

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26 Jun 2015 09:42:30
Personally James I think all players wages should be paid over over a 40 year period on anything above £10,000 a week.
Let's take a player on 40k a week 10k now plus 30k week spread throughout a normal working life time, they could never go skint and would have security for life but just wouldn't be able to pay 20k for a bottle of champagne every week they'd be limited to one a fortnight :-).
Its too much to young that's the problem and as a Brazilian coach said during the world cup a lot of players work tirelessly to get them self's out of poverty but then when they reach a level financially they just stop progressing because they lose that drive one they've got the money.

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26 Jun 2015 13:43:21
G62,

Firstly, elite players have worked hard and made a lot of sacrifices. Sacrifices that we did not have to make at that age. The pay off is the ability to earn considerable amounts of money they do if they make it (which most players do not).

I do not disagree that young players can be led astray and great careers ruined by poor choices or lack of hunger to succeed / thinking you have already succeeded; along with a myriad of other issues.

BUT after 18 we are all free to make those mistakes.

A footballer is not any different than you or I, except their mistakes are constantly under a microscope and because of the wages paid, we think they ought to have done better. That is unfair to a footballer.


The players union and the older players in the dressing room need to take responsibility and look out for these young players to make sure that the young players have the right attitude, put them in touch with reputable money managers, make sure to warn the young players about the various hangers on, the shady agents, the short career, and pitfalls of the lavish lifestyle.

I think that the Player's Union should set up a plan for all players to see for their retirement, but that is for the Union and the members to agree upon not for the owners to force upon the players. Also the PU should have some mandatory meetings with reputable money managers (or money management courses for the players), post career planning, counselling for troubled players, and quite simply the PU is not doing enough for its members.

I think a lot of players will benefit from this type of support from the Players' Union, but some players will not want the support and some of those players will make mistakes. We will always be focussed on the players that make the wrong choices not the many that make the right choices.

BUT even the players that make mistakes those are their mistakes to make.

I do not think you can force someone, who is competent in the eyes of the law to take payment earned in 14 years in payments over 40 years. That is a choice for the player to make - if he thinks that is wise he can do it, if he does not he can take the money as it comes due.

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25 Jun 2015 22:47:03
It's been 12 months since Fabregas came back.

He has been justified in joining Chelsea, they won the league, after all.

Bearing in mind the season he had at Chelsea,
Do we regret not trying to sign him?

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{Ed025's Note - for me dags..yes..

26 Jun 2015 00:50:43
Would we have won league with him, NO. Would chelsea won league without him, yes. He did the right thing for him.

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25 Jun 2015 23:35:45
Agree Ed,

Like him or hate him, he's top quality.

Changing subject slightly.
Remember I asked you a couple of days ago, how much money RM has available to spend, and you said not much.

Don't you have a major shareholder who is absolutely loaded?
Lord Tadchester (or something like that?, excuse the spelling).

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{Ed001's Note - they have two, Lord Grantchester and Robert Elstone.}

26 Jun 2015 07:04:18
That's the fella i was thinking of, Lord Grantchester.

Thanks 001.

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26 Jun 2015 07:09:48
For once i agree with steve he hit the nail
On the head, and i see no point of crying over split milk this isn't even worth banter to be honest, there is a chance to resign rvp if we want btw, but do we want him no. Fabregas isn't missed and won't be missed

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26 Jun 2015 08:22:36
Cesc didn't get the choice according to him and a few others and Arsene has never said Cesc didn't want to come back only that he didn't want him.
Looking at it from the outside upto the turn of the year any player who had ambition for success would have chosen city or chelsea above us and I'm sure at Christmas time Cesc must have looked at us and thought " lucky escape ' let's face it before just before the emergence of Le Coq even the 4th place trophy looked good.

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26 Jun 2015 09:03:05
As always don't go overboard. there is no pt of talking abt things which never happened and will not.

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25 Jun 2015 17:42:08
If we ever see Wenger retire (we might all die before that, although I'm happy with him) I'd like to see Jorge Sampaoli have a go with Arsenal
I am currently in Chile for the Copa America and Chile is probably the South American side at the moment
He has some Chilean titles to his name as well as a win in the Sudamericana and a Semi in the Libertadores
What do you think Eds?

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25 Jun 2015 21:34:55
I pondered this during the world cup and I absolutely would

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25 Jun 2015 22:22:01
Certainly has an interesting CV.

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25 Jun 2015 15:14:29
Maybe arsenal are going to announce a double signing next week with cech and have an schneiderlin maybe why cech medical is next week and not this week as we have agreed a few. I find it weird to do a medical next week though and not this week .

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25 Jun 2015 17:25:08
He could be on holiday maybe

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25 Jun 2015 19:23:24
Perhaps he's injured and can't pass the medical at the moment :-)

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25 Jun 2015 22:13:41
I reckon Wenger is currently talking to Charlie Austin.

He is going to give us an amazing hat trick.

Cech, Schneiderlin and Charlie boy.

Heaven.

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25 Jun 2015 23:19:55
Put the sock down dags :)

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25 Jun 2015 09:24:11
Apparently we have pulled away from signing Schneiderlin?

Any thoughts EDs?

were we ever interested then?

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{Ed002's Note - I have explained repeatedly Arsenal has been interested - you are wasting my time by asking the same thing again.}

25 Jun 2015 16:01:05
Then don't waste your time in replying :)

simple :) x

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{Ed002's Note - Sure, I am more than happy to delete your posts from now on - it is a lot easier than replying.}

25 Jun 2015 16:59:03
I'm sure you are

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25 Jun 2015 17:00:04
In all seriousness Ed you are assuming everyone sees all your posts....................not possible

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{Ed002's Note - You can search on a player's name or even on Ed002 just to check you are not going to piss me off when asking a question.}

25 Jun 2015 20:35:36
Ed I have been a very good boy this year please can I have a new bike for Christmas? You are Santa ..... aren't you?

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25 Jun 2015 18:33:39
Valid

Note to self :)

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25 Jun 2015 12:24:44
calling it right now, next seasons breakouts stars and significant improved players such as bellerin, coquelin and monreal this season will be gabriel and gnabry, really impressed by both when I've seen them and i expect them both to have major impacts impacts season and maybe even cement a place in the team

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25 Jun 2015 13:57:44
Could be
Very much depends on how much time they get on the pitch
Will they have impacts so big that it calls for writting impact twice?
I highly doubt it :)

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25 Jun 2015 19:26:15
Gabriel for me, I think he will become a rock solid regular over the coming season forming a partnership with Kos that's unrivalled in the premier league.

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25 Jun 2015 22:24:04
Why do u think that g62? On what basis have you come to the conclusion he will be rock solid? Genuine question.

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26 Jun 2015 09:08:28
From what I've seen so far Chris he looks more like Kos than Kos does very mobile and very alert to danger, I have been very impressed by his performance's and think once acclimatised fully to the premier league he will form an excellent partnership with Kos in the season ahead thus my reason for naming him as my Tip for the Top mate.

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26 Jun 2015 19:48:13
Wow I thought a player had to play at least 15 full games before the gunners were deeming him to go to the top. Guess I was wrong.

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25 Jun 2015 12:11:20
Dags I know you're going a bit stir crazy so here's a bit of info re the new season;

38 days until the Community Shield vs Chelsea

44 days until 1st game of the season vs West Ham

978, 455, 678, 888, 329 days until we sign Charlie Austin. ;-)

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25 Jun 2015 14:01:47
Haha cheers Red,

See, I've got everybody at it.

Everybody is talking about Charlie Austin 😏

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25 Jun 2015 11:24:53
{Ed001's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Manchester United Club Analysis Report 2015

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25 Jun 2015 11:17:58
{Ed001's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Manchester United Club Analysis Report 2015

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25 Jun 2015 15:17:36
Thanks ed il get round to reading it at some point. It currently on the list of things to do stuck between pouring salt in my eyes and pulling my toe nails out 😁

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25 Jun 2015 15:51:26
i did the toenails one, it was fantastic the pain kept me awake to actually watch a full chelsea game.

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25 Jun 2015 22:19:46
I thought it was quite interesting.

Nice to know players possible availability and the clubs interested in them.

Or, am I just a geek?

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25 Jun 2015 09:04:37
Just a question not what i personally would want but do you think we could use podolski as are utility man through the middle behind giroud and theo we was screaming for him to be plyed through the middle at one point for me i would think that was a step backwards just interested to know what other gooners think

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25 Jun 2015 13:13:00
If we had to play Podolski, I'd probably prefer him to play on the left. He's not cut it the very few times i've seen him down the middle. Never seen him play in the middle behind a striker though but I'd agree with you that it'd be a step backwards - probably.

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25 Jun 2015 08:38:39
I am sure we will announce Cech's arrival on July 1st when the window actually opens. We are good like that and are not desperate to appease our fans. Our trophies do that. Still not certain he will come though. Fingers still firmly crossed.

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25 Jun 2015 09:06:40
You are kidding of course?

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25 Jun 2015 10:45:12
Post of the year 👍

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25 Jun 2015 12:13:13
You Gooners are so easily pleased.

Oh wait....

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25 Jun 2015 06:01:29
Aaron Ramsey football play video clips. I know video clips can be misleading but see what you think. Not sure how much he'd sell for but looks quality.

https://vimeo.com/131575810

g62 have a look if you can. ;-)

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25 Jun 2015 07:45:46
I will mate :-) don't get me wrong Red mate I really rate Aaron very highly its just that I really rate the Ox too and think he brings more ballanc playing wide right than Aaron can.
For me playing the formation we did at the end of last season Aarons battle is with Caz for a place in our strongest 11 and only the tremendous form Caz showed in that formation gets him the nod over Ramsey.
Its all about opinion mate and anyone who feels the Ox shouldn't start is entitled to their veiw even if its soooo wrong :-)

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25 Jun 2015 08:06:10
U got to be kidding if your sayin the ox brings more balance, its infact ramsey who brings more balance to the team

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25 Jun 2015 08:09:45
Mate,

I just think it's fantastic we have a player like Ramsey with the quality in that clip and we are now thinking he has to earn a spot in the team.

He doesn't like the wing, wants to be in the middle and like you I love the Ox, it was when I saw your post saying sorry Ramsey but you'll have to wait you're turn that it makes you kind of appreciate how the players are upping their game across the park and that can only be fantastic for us.

Sanchez and the introduction of Coquelin has definitely taken our group of players up a level.

Even if you look at the two cup wins, last season, we were that delicate likely to be steamrollered by a lesser opponent team, to the team this season that just swiped away Villa with ease.

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25 Jun 2015 09:09:46
Unfortunately for him (OX) I think he is more of an impact player , I think AR gives us more in 90 minutes than Ox does . Ox is great as a half time sub or someone to bring on as legs get tired.

In my opinion of course

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25 Jun 2015 09:25:09
Totally Red, Le Coq gives us that security in the middle I never stopped moaning about in 2014 and let's face it I did moan daily about it :-)
Sanchez to some degree has shamed a lot of our players into upping their work rate and above his amazing ability on the ball its his work ethic that has done so much for our team.
I'm happy to go into the new season with what we have already because Le Coq and Cech give us that added strength not to get rolled over with embarrassing ease by the big boys any longer and going forward was never a problem but with Mesut and Sanchez we have even gone up several notches in that department too.
DM cover and a top striker would be very welcome additions but if they don't happen I won't be tearing my hair out with utter frustration at Arsene this season because I think we will competive as we are at the moment and more signings will only reenforce that title challenge further.

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25 Jun 2015 09:29:39
Hood if you think Aaron is our best option outwide fair play to you, i just disagree with you.
In the middle Aaron over Ox out wide Ox over Aaron for me mate.

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25 Jun 2015 13:04:54
Agree with you there G62

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25 Jun 2015 15:13:03
If you think the Ox is an impact player on the wing and I agree with you - then that makes Theo a weapon of mass destruction (WMD).

Ox is great and versatile - I see him spot starting for theo, sanchez and maybe Ramsey/Caz and also being a high impact sub, all good!

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25 Jun 2015 15:46:04
A person who plays, wide doesn't bring stability to a team, its the people who play from the center which bring stability to the team, over a period of 90 minutes i expect Aaron to have a bigger impact than Ox

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25 Jun 2015 17:09:14
I agree Hoody , over 90 minutes Aaron has a bigger impact than Ox for sure.

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25 Jun 2015 19:03:55
Balance is the thing the Ox brings out wide Hood mate, stability is a different is a different debate.
Rooster its all about opinion mate but with Ox you will get more quality on a regular basis than with Theo, WMD :-) not sure about that mate but on his good days he's can cause an awful lot of damage to the opposition no question but on those all to familiar other days he's as effective as a catapult with no elastic.

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26 Jun 2015 15:13:28
Hey G - those are the days we are going to be well pleased we have a tiger like Ox on the subs bench I would say!

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25 Jun 2015 00:11:09
Would anyone swap Koscielny for Ramos?

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{Ed007's Note - Real Madrid wouldn't.}

25 Jun 2015 10:22:12
Never. Ramos is another over rated defender playing for the big 2 in Spain. Doesn't have to defend much and often gets caught out when he does. Has never really matured for me. I rate him like Casillas, great for real but can't see himm cutting it elsewhere. Just my opinion though :-)

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25 Jun 2015 13:59:43
Have to agree with Jamie Carragher on this . For an over rated defender who doesn`t have to do much oh and immature Ramos does seem to have won an awful lot - umpteen leagues and cups including Champions League ( didn't he score? ) with Madrid - Oh and just the Euros and World Cup with Spain. What does an immature over rated defender actually have to win to appease some people! Rant over and no smiley face!

Wouldn't swap for Kos the Boss though - favourite player by a mile! COYG

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25 Jun 2015 19:37:22
Straight swap for Per. They're on the same level.

Joking aside I really do like Ramos. Fast, strong, good in the air and despite what some people say, he is of course great in the tackle. What I think is his greatest asset however is his fearlessness. Not afraid of a bit of "roughhousing" on the pitch, albeit that is also his biggest weakness; the fouls and dirty tackles resulting in bookings.

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