Arsenal Banter Archive December 04 2014

 

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04 Dec 2014 22:04:41
Evening ed025, would it be possible for you to put this on the banter page please. Thanks.

I realise that I'm getting seriously out numbered by those that want Wenger to move aside and let a new face take the helm.

I know he's made mistakes but I can't help not wanting to let go of an Arsenal legend, I've teetered a few times and totally get why many want him out and there's plenty of arguments or reasons to see the back of him and Roland-dinho made a similar argument or points that most have with him.

Of course I question things, Knowing that since the Invincibles, Arsenal have deteriorated, in quality of player, up until last season with the signing of Ozil and this season with Sanchez along with Ospina, Debuchy, Chambers and Welbeck whilst not selling anyone of note. It is difficult to argue that they haven't improved us or in Welbecks case given us other options.

But in all honesty did we have any players to lose of the quality of RVP, Fabregas, Nasri etc. With the exception of Koscielny the answer is no, we had a lot of young talent with Theo Walcott being what could have been considered our star name. We all thought we were going to lose him. On top of that we have Cazorla, Rosicky, Podolski, Arteta and Giroud all decent players but not the real quality we'd like to see.

However last season Ramsey turned into the best midfielder in the Country and we had a 7 point lead and things looked frighteningly rosey, but he got injured along with Jack and Ozil and we know how that ended up. I also ask, did Eduardo's injury cost us in 2008? Or Lehman in 2006. Margins.

I'd also ask since we last won the title, if you look at the managers and their respective squads that have won it each year, would you expect any other manager to have beaten them to the title, with our then squads. I would say unlikely although you could argue they may have done better than fourth. Margins.

Look at the mighty Mourinho last season, he was missing key players and he didn't win the league, well why didn't he when he was only a Costa and a Fabregas short, why didn't the marvel work wonders and beat City to the title, after all he is a tactical genius? If you don't have the quality you get found out. Arsene doesn't get afforded that, he is simply old hat and should take his P45 and disappear into the sunset.

For nine years a team lost quality and in truth became a squad not capable of challenging for a title but somehow Wenger managed to ensure we got over the line for fourth place and that was deemed to be our lot and a big stick to hammer him with.

Other managers could blaze away buying quality whilst he simply could not, with Arsene endeavouring to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

So if you have a weaker team, a team you state isn't good enough to beat Chelsea, City, Bayern, Madrid, Barca and whoever else, the chances are you are going to fail. That is not simply down to tactics, quality shines through.

Like I said Mourinho is hailed as a tactical genius which in essence involves all out attack against weak teams and defend, defend and defend against the big teams hoping to catch them on the break, did it with City does it with us.

If our strikers are lacking and don't finish the chances we create then we are going to struggle. See the United game.

Wenger builds or tries to build a team to play a certain way and when he has all the pieces then they play, ala the Invincibles, this team is not yet near the Invincibles, it requires further players in the places we all see and those combined with the quality we have to play as the best teams under Arsene have played, with not just ability but intelligence along with it. Do you honestly think this Chelsea team would have beaten the Invincibles, not a hope? Is the current Chelsea team playing the football we used to play? Not a chance.

Yes he left us short defensively and many find that unacceptable, I'm certain Arsene has it in mind the players he wants and will get them through the next two windows and then and only then we will see an Arsenal of old.

The simple truth is you cannot honestly expect him to fill all the gaps with a minimum of time and not a limitless budget for wages. It is easy to see that players need to be moved on and better quality brought in, the likes of Mertesacker, Arteta and Giroud whilst good players are not the Kompany, Toure or Aguero's of this world or the Campbell, Viera and Henry of a previous one.

No matter how desperate you are for players you cannot get them all for a variety of reasons; you cannot simply brush aside those reasons and say he should have done it.

People look into every nook and cranny to come up with reasons why Wenger should be replaced. I don't argue with them because Wenger has made mistakes, who hasn't, but I genuinely don't think he has lost what it takes, we simply haven't had the players to do what it takes.

I also strongly believe that Wenger has earned the right to spend and to build a team to challenge again, it cannot be achieved overnight. I for one am happy to afford him this contract to do it. He needs longer than 18 months to rectify 9 years of depreciation.

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Totally respect your views and feelings Red mate, even though we don't agree on Arsene it doesn't detract from my respect for your posts loyalty and to him.
I really hope within this contract Arsene proves you right and me wrong by a million miles

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04 Dec 2014 22:53:39
Damn fine post Red.

I have always been pro Wenger, although last week I did post that he should step aside, although I think it was more of a knee-jerk post to the Manchester United defeat.

We all know Wenger's tenure has been a tale of two half's.
The first 9 years were a rollercoaster ride of titles, cups, triumphs and tribulations.
Star players playing in a star studded team. Playing unbelievably beautiful football and winning global accolades, even comparisons to the brilliant 'Pele' inspired Brazil team.

Than, the landscape of football changed with the arrival of Russian Oligarchs and oil rich Arabs.
They bought into the Premiership and changed it, some say for better, some say for worse.

We are a club based on tradition, and although we took on board the likes of Kroenke and Usmanov, we did not surrender our outright ownership to foreign investors.

Boardroom battles are one thing, but as a football club, we are judged on the pitch, and we could not compete.

Our only way to keep a level playing surface was to attract extra revenue, and to do this, we sold Highbury and moved to The Emirates, thus generating 20,000 extra season tickets and an increase in match day revenue and merchandising.

But, we were still in debt, so had to sell star players. RVP, Nasri, Clichy, Fabregas, Cole, Adebayor, to name but a few, were sacrificed to pay the interest and balance the books.

Most of these players were sold to our rivals, making them stronger and us weaker.

But, its one thing balancing the books and keeping the bank manager happy, we also have to perform on the pitch and get results.

One man guided us through those times, Arsene Wenger.
When results were going against us, and people were pointing the finger of blame, one man stood firm, Arsene Wenger.

When pundits/commentators/fans were accusing the players of being no good, one man stood firm and accepted responsibility, Arsene Wenger.

Any flak that came our way, one man took it on the chin, Arsene Wenger.

He never blamed the players, never looked for excuses and never hid.

He guided us through some tough times, but always managed to keep us on the tail-coats of our super rich neighbours and rivals, whilst also building a state of the art super stadia.

15 years successive qualification to the Champions League is testament to his hard work, whilst having his hands tied behind his back with financial restraints.

Yes, he is stubborn, yes he is arrogant, yes he has too much control in the every day running of the club, but he has led us to unparalled success, both on and off the pitch.

He has signed a 3 year deal. sorry, he has earned a 3 year deal, let's show him some deserved respect, and let him see out his contract.

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Nice post RD, very well written, I wish I could post but that ed02 has stolen the buttons from all the people who know more about FFP than him :-p

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I agree completely, he's finally in a position to start properly investing in the squad and taking us back up the league and everyone wants him gone? People even calling for the tactical genius that is Klopp, who's side sit bottom of their league and we just beat them despite Arsene and his supposed lack of tactics? Give the man a break, I mean we're bringing in players like Ozil and Sanchez it's not all bad. I assume our defensive frailties are because he doesn't want to splash out 30m on some mid level player who will simply help maintain our top 4 status but is waiting for the real deal so we can start dominating the league again. Would take Arsene over mourinho, pellegrini or van gaal anyday.

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Red dog lemontree. do you really trust him to buy the players we need.

end of the day he knew verm was off. alderwiereld onloan was available. and if he makes a move for schniderlin before the fire sale we would of got him.

i honestly think manu will win the title before us if wenger is incharge, pains me to say that

uv only got to look at atletico madrid to see what a manager can do with players on a tight budget.

great post though red dog as always keep em up

g

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05 Dec 2014 18:32:22
Yes Derby I do mate and thanks for the replies gents.

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{Ed025's Note - you deserve that red dog for that quality post mate, some great replies as well, its refreshing to see that sort of loyalty and such a well written post, pat yourself on the back fella..

04 Dec 2014 21:53:03
My posts are fine lol.

Teachers pet :-)

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They've only taen them away from the funny ones dags!

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04 Dec 2014 19:37:23
Eds I don't seem to be able to post on the banter page, rumours pops up but not banter any clues plesse?

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{Ed025's Note - im on the case G62..

Top top man Edward 025 in fact double tops, no reference to your size ment there of course mate :-)
Thanks Ed

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{Ed025's Note - no worries mate..

Ed033 Note: The Arsenal Player Ratings page has been updated to the latest Arsenal match.

You can also vote on Man of the Match for the latest game using our Arsenal Man of the Match Polls page.

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04 Dec 2014 11:22:18
big alderwiereld fan and I think last night showed he could of slotted into our team nicely/. if atletico want to sell i'd be all over him this summer

also do we think wanyama impressed wenger? he impressed me.

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Ed's, where has the post button gone?

Me and Banbury will have to become Spurs supporters!

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04 Dec 2014 19:13:02
I would snap him up any day, reminds me of TV5.

Wanyama? Yes please, beast of a player.

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Yup me too 337, seems you and Banbury have upset the Ed's and some how I've been punished as well :-)

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YUP

They have removed my post button


why is this Eddy boy

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{Ed025's Note - im on the case BG..

04 Dec 2014 20:33:49
Finally the eds have quashed the Wenger out brigade, Yahoo! ;-)

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Seriously Wanyama, not me he doesn't scare me he just reminds me of a raw alex song, would rather much prefer Carvalho. And Alderwiereld seriously is there a better def than the kosc, please tell me

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Reds my old mate, I think there are more than 2 in the gang :)

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337 is pro Arsene so should have his postie thing me back, as for me and Banbury!
I have some paint if you've got an old sheet and couple of broom handles plus can make Stoke Saturday afternoon Bambers?

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Oi! I'm definitely not in that gang!

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04 Dec 2014 21:48:03
I know Banbury, I'm proper outnumbered and sinking fast. :-(

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Still with you RD, and dags is not totally gone yet

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Anyone who thinks wanyama wouldn't make a difference to our team needs there head checking. on carvalho iv not seen enough of him but hear good things.

so wanyama for me he knows the league very well

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04 Dec 2014 10:17:15
Martinez has me worrying for no reason, why do I doubt the man, he has been solid in goal.

Sanchez I will build a statue for you myself, i'm not sure if he can sustain this pace of running around for 90 mins for the whole season, but if there are any breaks due, this man needs an entourage to massage every muscle he has :)

giroud has been under rated by us fans, his introduction has been other worldly in recent games.

welbeck the jury is still not out, but he tries, he tracks back, he gets my vote just for that.

ramsey has regressed, he's not the same guy who would run all around the pitch, maybe his role has changed I have no idea but he has regressed.

kos has that element of just being everywhere. the sanchez on the other side if you will. build him a statue too.

before we go around building statues, the team has been great defensively but very slow building play and creating, and why oh why are we trying to play through the middle? I did not see messi in an arsenal shirt.

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Martinez, has kept 3 consecutive clean sheets and has looked secure. He is only 22 years of age, yet has a maturity about him that Szczesny seems to lack. I prefer him to Ospina as he is 6'4", opposed to Ospina who is 6ft, short for a top keeper these days.
Sanchez is awesome, I am worried as he is looking fatigued and could clearly benefit from a rest, to avoid injury.
Giroud, has definitely helped the team since his return & with pacey options, such as Sanchez, Welbeck & Walcott around him, he will prove to be a vital component in the team.
Welbeck, great start & an inspired signing, looks a little jaded. I would like to see Campbell & Podolski given more opportunities to allow Welbeck & Sanchez a rest.
Ramsey, I was never a great fan of his after he came back from his serious injury, but last season he proved me wrong. This season I am not at all impressed with him & hope his form picks up.
Kos, is an excellent defender, but I believe his achilles are still troubling him, which worries me, after what happened to Vermaelen after his achilles problems, he was never the same player & has hardly played this season for Barca.

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Martinez looks excellent to me and a very good signing

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04 Dec 2014 06:30:15
Solid display and good result last night, with another clean sheet.
We need to continue our run with a win at Stoke on Saturday.
I thought some of the players were looking fatigued last night and with a midweek match against Galatasaray on Tuesday, followed by Newcastle at home on Saturday, is it time to rest some players & play the likes of Campbell, Podolski & Rosicky?

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Debauchy very close to a return which is good

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I don't have a post tag on my page???

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04 Dec 2014 09:14:30
*Debuchy.

He's been an Arsenal player since the Summer!

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Me either BG, I think we've been banned from posting lol

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Id rest the whole team against gala

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Rob, whilst we are on the subject of spelling our players names wrong, can we all contact arsenal iplayer and tell Stephen Hughes that Cazorla is not Carzola! If he can't get it right then at least call him Santi, he would probably call him Santa I guess.

Drives me mad, and he gets paid!

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04 Dec 2014 13:10:11
Wiltshere or Wilshire are some horrific ones as well!

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04 Dec 2014 03:11:28
Laurent Koscielny for me is one of the top 5 CB's in Europe. What a difference the guy makes to our team. He would not be amiss in our invincibles team and would in my opinion walk into any top 11 in the world.

Sanchez is just untouchable, even if he didn't score almost every game and wasn't as technically gifted, his work rate would still win me over.

A couple of scrappy wins under our belt now so hopefully this is the beginning of a revival under Wenger. Three clean sheets in a row pleases me the most!

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To say he would walk into any top 11 team in the world is saying he is one of top 2 center backs in the world . Which I think most people would disagree with. Vincent Kompany and Thiago silva for me. Also consider hummels, chiellini, Cahill,Ramos, varane, pique, Pepe . Debatable of Kos is even top 5 . But for our style of play and next to mertz he is fantastic yes

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Sanchez and Kos are from the very top draw and wouldn't be out of place in any team in the world, add to them Mesut Ozil.
We have 3 of the worlds top 20 to 30 players all in our squad at the same time and we need all 3 at their best if we are to ever be the very best we can be, we must stop wasting Ozil.
I read something interesting yesterday asking why Arsenal fans a so tough on Ozil but Carzola and Poldolski get off virtually scot free dispite the stats showing Ozils contribution to the team being far greater than the other two put together, itsxa fair question.
When Mesut is back we must help him from 1st to last minute he'll be worth it and it really is in our interest to help him get back to his best

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I didn't say if a squad has Silva and Kompany at the back Kos would get a game ahead of them. I'm saying that currently he would walk into any team. Does Hummels and Kompany play in the same team? Does Silva and Ramos?

For me the top 5 CBs at the moment are Hummels, Ramos, Kompany, Silva and Kos. Who's currently better than those 5? Just because Kos isn't getting paid £200,000 and being transferred for £30million don't misjudge his ability.

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04 Dec 2014 10:50:42
Spot on VDG, he would not look out of place stood next to any of those four. The guy is quality.

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You make a valid point it's devateable but yes I love Kos

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04 Dec 2014 13:20:20
Pique and Pepe are horribly overated. Bayern and Real are thr only teams Kos wouldn't get into for me.

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04 Dec 2014 14:50:50
Justk

Silva is in gradual regression since PSG move. Same with Pique for 3 years. Pepe way over rated. Cahill is no for me on that list. Neither is Varane just now. But given he is 21 he's not far away. Kos is def top 5 unless we're all forgetting someone

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04 Dec 2014 00:37:16
Aguero.

Nuff said.

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Kills me we nissed out on him every time he plays Dags. Unplayable on his day. Up there with Ronaldo and Messi on his day.

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04 Dec 2014 08:26:50
VDG,

The man is a beast.

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Love the guy.

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Ed033 Note: The Arsenal Player Ratings page has been updated to the latest Arsenal match.

You can also vote on Man of the Match for the latest game using our Arsenal Man of the Match Polls page.

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04 Dec 2014 00:13:14
Just a suggestion.

I think, after every game, we should have somebody on here who rates every players performance and gives them marks out of ten.

Swan does it on the Everton page and it makes for interesting reading.

So, who do you nominate?

Whoever gets most nominations gets the job.

I nominate> G62.

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I nominate Dags!

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04 Dec 2014 06:20:14
I nominate CTR. ;-)

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Thanks for for the nomination but I think the man for this job is Oleg, his knowledge of the technical side of the game and understanding of the wider picture are second to none.
Well his posts impress me and are liked reading someone who's been involved at a high level for years

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04 Dec 2014 08:28:29
Thanks VDG.

Lol Red Dog. One word, class.

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04 Dec 2014 10:07:12
U guys don't like hearing the truth so I wouldn't do it you all Red.

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Malaga for me!

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04 Dec 2014 12:21:08
You'd be perfect Chris, do it, you know you want to. ;-)

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04 Dec 2014 13:17:12
Witty.

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04 Dec 2014 00:23:18
Hi all,
I just wanted to talk about Aaron Ramsey. I think that Ramsey has been getting some stick for not scoring as much this season as he did last, but I still feel that he is being as influential. For starters, his passing and defensive work have been excellent so far. Although he is not scoring as much, he is still contributing so much to the team. Additionally, he has been amazing dribbling past players, and, like Sanchez, always looks for the forward pass, which is something that I feel we lack.
What are your thoughts on him?
Joshuafish

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04 Dec 2014 00:35:57
I posted earlier about Rambo, but you do make a fair point about his work rate.

I guess I am unfairly judging him on goals, or lack of, compared to last season.

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Josh it's not just his goals he is a young lad and he should be progressing every year. He has went from being Superman to SpongeBob squarepants in the space of 12 months. We have invested much time and effort into making him a top player so we must reap the rewards on a consistent basis.

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Imo I like Aaron and his desire to play with style and attack in mind, he is maturing into a solid midfield and typically this season he has had to tackle & chase back more as his passing at times has been loose. Last night he looked tired come 75 mins so hopefully he'll be fresh for Stoke Saturday but I would rest him for the trip to Galatasaray and give Rosicky a run out. Remember Rambo picked us when SAF was hot on signing him for the Mancs. Rambos a Gooner!!

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04 Dec 2014 00:16:26
We have scored 7 goals in the last 5 minutes in Prem League this season.

Highest in league.

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Good omen? How many titles did United win during 'Fergie' time? Too many!

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04 Dec 2014 00:15:00
Sanchez.

8 goals in last 8 games.

Top dog.

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