Arsenal Banter Archive March 04 2013

04 Mar 2013 23:20:17
Heard a very interesting piece on 5live this eve from David Ornstein - he says he has it on good authority that Wenger has pulled the plug on Steve Bould's defensive coaching sessions. At the start of the season Bould was taking these dedicated sessions and the results were plain for all to see. Best spell our defence has seen in a long time. However, and this is what killed me, Wenger has stopped these sessions because (Ornstein's sources say) he was unhappy with the media's attention Boulds input was receiving! If this is true then Wenger not only looks mad - then he is mad.
He's assembled a crappy squad and he's incapable of training them. Ornstein went on to say that when we were winning things we did so with a team of intelligent, experienced, football professionals - capable of reacting to the various changes in a football match. Since then he's bought young, inexperienced and less confident players who are unable to change games or think for themselves as effectively.
I despair. I still love Wenger but know it's over. We need him to step aside. Take on another challenge, so we can thank him and wish him well. Look out for his results and hope he's winning. But this has got to stop. I don't want to end up hating him. He's making good money for a lot of rich people. He's making good money for himself! What are we getting? ZILCH, MEDIOCRITY and a little humiliation.

JayJay

The truth hurts. Well said.

If that's true, that is pathetic and wenger does need to move on- its not the first time I've heard about the controlling personaility of wenger.

I also agree about our previous winning teams. I think the team back then fitted perfectly with wengers strength's- now that the squad isn't as good, we need good tactics, organisation, decisions, etc to make up for the lack of overall ability.

argubly (well the proof and pudding comes to mind), this squad plays into wenger weaknesses.

But like you I don't want to end up hating wenger or for any of our fans to hate wenger- that would actually be tragic.
LG {Ed039's Note - I think he has stayed on too long and is extremely close to destroying the legend he has made for himself)

LG

to be honest are you surprised?

we all ways said he had full control.

he has had no 1 to cut him down to size since dein left.

i found it interesting that wenger said he was not involved with the running and the money side of the club when asked about the take over.
all he has gone on about the since dein left was ffp rules sustainability and money.

I WONDER WILL WENGER GET A HUGE BONUS OF STAN KROENKE IF HE SELLS THE CLUB?

Charlie we all know that 20s piece he gave to the press yesterday or the day the before was absolute b******* - Wenger thinks he can BS bullsh!tters but he can't, nobody can. He didn't even try and sound genuine! He is so involved it is unreal.

Metal there was only a hand full of us knew what was going on here.

he has constantly lied to us since dein left.

i would like nothing more for some 1 to sack him and see him walk out into the car park with his card board box.

i have no respect for him and I could not give a sh** what he has done for the club.

he became a dictator.

and these latest bould comments make my blood boil.

i can't wait for him to fail at his next job.

hes not a good manager

Surley steve bould would leave if that was the case?

Yorkshire gooner Joe :D

Joe, Arsenal don't 'do' getting rid of staff mid-season. Bould is rumoured to be leaving, that says it all.

Charlie I do still respect what Wenger has done and always will but I do not respect much that he has done in the last 4 years at all. And I do not respect a man who is a hypocrite when it comes to paying players, and someone who lies to the fans. In fact thinking about that makes my respect for him almost non-existent.

Metal,,

by the end of this season how many times was the cl league held at wembly in the last 5 years.

we had in the bank over the last 5 years a cash flow on average 135mill.

we have the best generated cash flow in the pl and most of europe.

no 1 can tell me would could of not generated enough money to finance the spending off a 100 mill loans to provide new signings and better contracts to keep our players.

what was the plan by the board?

do you not think wenger has known all along what will happen with the club.

he was allowed to do what he likes and the board will sell when they feel like it. he is part of the plan?

if he did not agree with the board why did he not resign in protest?

said this all along and got slagged from hi heaven on here.

you watch it will all come out now.

Jay jay respect my friend a great and well thought out post.

But the truth is we will always marvel on what wenger not only brought to arsenal but to english football, he changed the whole ethos on training recruiting system and style of play, but now he is so close to tarnishing what could have been a great legacy

Shaneyd

04 Mar 2013 22:36:26
Two reasons why we lost against Tottenham:
The substitutions: during the period where we had scored we where on top. Jenkinson was making ground and putting in some dangerous crosses down the right and had the beating of Assou Ekoto all game. Then what does Wenger do? Takes him off for Rosicky. Why? Rosicky offers nothing to the team and neither does Ramsey playing right back for the matter. If your to bring Rosicky on then at least sacrifice Ramsey which is what he is basically doing anyway by playing him right back. Next bringing Podolski on for Arteta was a shocker as well. We where left with three attacking midfielders all of which have a combined height of 4foot nothing trying to compete with Gareth Bale and Moussa Dembles.
The Centre Backs: None of our defenders are talkers including my favourite player Carl Jenkinson. I don't know why maybe it's down to our back four being made up of four different nationalities or maybe it's because there not leaders. But when one centre back goes with the man and the other plays a high line what is happening? It's a shambles and its not good enough, it's not hard. Before the game you just have to say to your other centre back were man marking or were playing a high line and if one is struggling tell him when to come up or when to drop.
89'gooner

The reason we lost, is Spurs played better.

Accept it, we're not the team we used to be.

Highbury Henry.

Hooray Henry, in all fairness spurs did not play better, they just took their chances - now that's the fact!

Granted we had a lot of possession but did we cause them many problems?

They created the better chances we just had more possession as usual

04 Mar 2013 20:53:48
Why is it whenever anyone posts the invincible side they always miss out Edu when he made more appearances than Gilberto and Vieira that season.

04 Mar 2013 22:48:39
good shout, he was a qaulity player. dj gooner

To me he was the x-factor of our central midfield, not Vieira that season due to injury, and Gilberto was third choice behind Edu and Vieira

But for me, that season and team is still about RP7. genius footballer

Edu = rubbish.

Edu was mad to have left when he did and didn't have a lot of luck when he did, think he broke his leg in his first game after leaving.

Still find it hard we got knocked out by Chelsea in champions league that year.

^^ Get over it! That was a long time ago

04 Mar 2013 20:18:19
I have never been a fan of big spending or buying trophies, but at some point enough is enough.

It's time Wenger is allowed to actually buy ready made world class players. so if a bid from Qatar is on the cards, so be it.

One thing I do know, is that a without a takeover and real funds and an injection of talent, Jack isn't going to stick around year after year to be reduced to tears after a match.

We outplayed them, they could have scored more goals than us. this is a fundamental problem and it happens every match

I'm not going to give up on the Bayern match, but this is a really low time for us and I'm sick of the same mistakes every match

As far as I'm concerned, we can sell Vermaelen this summer. his head has clearly been turned and he has been our worst defender this season.

Jack to move to Anfield. Your USA owner has done a deal with Liverpool USA owners; To the Yonks it all makes sense. {Ed029's Note - Liverpool are not financially in a position to be looking at such players.}

Whatever ed what a load of tosh {Ed001's Note - unfortunately, much as I wish, being a Liverpool fan myself, Liverpool aren't in a position to be spending that kind of money this summer.}

05 Mar 2013 12:57:03
gotta love the eds replys

If Jack moves to Anfield, I will eat my hat and bend over and insert my head up my arsenal!

337

Jack's on his way to Utd.

RVP's been speaking to SAF about this matter for some weeks.

I'm led to beleive Jack's keen on the step up.

Labroke Len

I've heard that too Len.

04 Mar 2013 19:45:48
Does anyone know what are best team is? i'm not sure Wenger does.

For me its.

Szsezecny
Sagna - Koscielny - Vermaelen - Monreal
Arteta - Diaby
Walcott - Wilshere - Cazorla
Podolski

I cannot for the life of me understand why

1. Podolski doesn't play as a striker
2. Koscielny keeps getting dropped
3. Neither Coquelain or Daiby playes when we need a CDM

Paddy

Don't like Cazorla on the left or Diaby playing either

Sagna isn't better than Jenk's for a start, TV5 is toilet right now and Merts and Kos always seem to play ok together and I would have le Coq over that f*** wit Diaby any and indeed everyday of the week. apart from that your spot on. ish

1404

04 Mar 2013 20:54:06
Diaby, what is the point, he's out again, this time with a calf strain.

Powder Puff

Kind of agree Paddy but

How can you say that is our best team? we have never seen Podolski play as a striker for Arsenal!

Diaby has to go, simple! Either that or strictly be on a pay as you play basis, it is not even the same injury every time.

04 Mar 2013 19:01:23
Bale, Vertonghen, Lloris, Dembele, Parker & Defoe.

All of these players were eager to join Arsenal prior to moving to Spurs.

Compared to the players we've signed and resigned, it is heartbreaking.

I gave up on Wenger when he didn't take Scott Parker from West Ham (I wanted him at Arsenal when he was at Charlton, before Chelski picked him up).

"you don't know what you're doing"

gun44

We defo missed a big opportunity with Parker he was available at a low price and is exactly the type we needed in midfeild. He could have provided that protection in front of the back 4 we have been lacking. Not sure why Wenger did go for him maybe unsure of his injury record or age but he has been a vital player for Spurs now and was a rock in front of their back 4 against us.

Vertonghen also would have been far better suited to our high back line and being Belgian aswell could have formed a good partnership with TV5. The arrival of Mertasaker has been a big factor in TV5's alarming drop in form as he has become unsure of himself with not having the much faster recovery pace of Kos alongside of him. Uncertainty leads to mistakes at the back which leads low confidence and playing well within yourself. I don't actually think Mert is a bad defender and does read the game well it is just in high line his lack of pace mobility is crulley exposed his naturel tendancy is to drop off when the other 3 want to push on. Thsi is a recipe for diaster as teh back line must always move togther as a unit.

04 Mar 2013 18:26:49
Ok we're in March now, and Wenger doesn't know what his best team is.

The manager is just a joke.

Who is the preferred CB pairing? No wonder it doesn't matter who is playing, they always look like strangers.

Jenks should never have been dropped for Bac's return. Sagna doesn't care and has no stamina, and now Jenks has got no confidence.

Nacho has been thrown in at the deepend because Santos had to leave and Gibbs fell apart again.

Are Walcott, Podolski and Gerv preferred as strikers or wingers? Only the best players can be effective in several positions. These are not the best in any position.

And everyone in the world except for AW knows you can't play 4-3-3 without a dedicated defensive midfielder (FFS Claude Makelele perfected the role that made that formation possible).

redgoon

Great post. Totally agree.
Wenger has to go now as he is not technical. He can not work out how to defeat top teams.

The best system and the only winning system has been 4-4-2.

Wenger never won those trophies, he great scouts did to find bargins. Then the players won it. The bergkamps/wright/adams/seaman/henry etc etc



ian

It's not Wenger's fault. We've got no money and no longer have the pulling power that we used to.

I know how Wenger feels ot to have the pulling power he once did. you can bet your ass I made the most of it though.

Ney panic lads this once great club will rise again soon I can feel it on my toes

1404

04 Mar 2013 17:31:26
We need right back here's a few players would fit the bill

Cicinhio-Seville
Hugo mallo-celts Vigo
Filipe luis-athletico
Nkoulou-marseille
Danilo-Porto
Piszczek-Dortmund
Maggio-Napoli
Srna-shakhtar
Richards-man city
Sebastian corchia-sochaux
Imranredmab

N'Koulou is a CB and Filipe is a LB. Would love Richards or Piszczeck. Think Srna and Maggio are too attacking or are better as RMs.

Detroit Gooner

Maggio .

N kolou has played right back and luis Ccan play either side he's comfortable on each flank

04 Mar 2013 17:11:19
metal gooner, you said you want a board that can control the manager?

In his defense he said I don't have anything to do with the finance that's the directors job, there's much more then meets the eye,

I still beleieve he hasn't been given the money, because why wouldn't he spend it?

GOING ROUND IN CIRCLES MATE, THESE ARE TOUGH TIMES.

Yorkshire Gooner Joe :D

I stopped believing what Wenger says mate, I would recommend you do the same. Wenger says he has nothing to do with them yet he can't shut up about them and the board say the money's there.

I said it somewhere before and I'll say it again, I'm at that stage now where if things seem a certain way it's because they are. The reason it seems like Rednapp is not involved with finances, or RDM then Benitez, nor Rogers, is because they aren't. They make demands of their board, not even Mancini is in charge of the pennies and he doesn't hide that fact. He regularly says he wanted more money and signings. Then you get Wenger who acts like he controls the money, talks like he controls the money, never even uses subliminal body language to suggest the board is lying when they say there's money, on the whole has far too much to say for someone who 'isn't' in control of the money, and to be honest with, probably is in control of the money. You think he likes spending? I don't at all. But then we see he's paid so much and people myself included would say it's silence pay. They see him sign The Ox instead of someone ready to do a job and they say 'see, there's money there' because why would the board sanction the purchase of the Ox and not a better ready made player? Then we just go round and round in circles and all we have to rely on are instincts. Well mine tell me Wenger is in charge and they have done for a while but I will say two years ago they said something different.

I watched that interview and read the transcript and I don't buy what he is saying for one second. I believe he has everything to do with it. When a man says he will choose his own replacement I think it's clear who runs what lol.

04 Mar 2013 16:55:03
Diaby is a holding us back he stops wenger purchasing a DM FACT!

Yorkshire Gooner Joe :D

oh ed when I post, and look at the comments on the feedback, it doesn't find my ones when i'm signed in? I have too sign of aswell too view them? Howcome?

This I definitely agree with - funny thing is he doesn't play as a DM when he is fit either!

04 Mar 2013 16:40:03
Apparently today is Wenger's 6000 day as Arsenal manager however 48% of his time has been since we last won a trophy, that's 2880 days, unless you count 4th and the emirates cup. Over the last 2880 days he's earned £56 million in wages and the players who've left have won a combined total of 64 trophies. Sad to say but Wenger's career is quickly heading to being less successful years as Arsenal manager than seasons with trophies.

I agree but will the fans do anything about it, not a chance, the fighting spirit of this once great club, has drained away from both terraces and pitch, an outsider looking in must think we are all in an hypnotic state, there's no players left who will qeustion Wenger, to the greater good of the club, they just move on to leave a void in our squad, and swell the bank accounts of the share holders, the supporters have done nothing in 8 trophy less seasons, to force change, and all this time we suffer and do nothing, moan as much as you like, then do as little to get things changed as you possibly can, our club our night-mare, should be our new motto. Plum Red.

He will always be remembered as our most successful manager whom built one of the greatest teams in English football history. His time might be up but don't start slagging the man off because our next manager won't acheive the same success I promise you.

In Wenger we trust.

I always remember how crap we were before his arrival.

Yeah, but back then we had a board that gave the manager money, and a manager that wasnt afraid to spend it, Wenger was good, NO Longer, he has a assistant that could sort out that defence in an instant, but is not allowed to, to me Arsene has become a dictator, my way or the highway, he's time is up, and only the AFC supporters who are content with a 4th place finish, want him to stay, I believe that a manager should want to actually win things. And Wenger isn't a coach or a tactitian no way, He can not motivate players at all, Greece won the European champions with average players, Wenger can not manage a team, he cretaed to 4th place. Personally I feel we are short of 3/4 players, but I could say that since 2004, He gives Walcott a £100,000 a week, sorry he's a Winger, never a striker, Poldolski should play up front with Giroud, He has a back 4 that individually are all good, but as a team play worse than school kids, Good managers use the best weapons at thier disposal, is he using S Bould, NO way mate, cause our defence would never be that bad, gives captaincy to a player that wants to be in spain, instead of giving it to a player that crys when we lose, Wilshire, who actually bleeds for AFC, Sorry Wenger was good, And must take 75% of the blame, 25% the board, but wenger bought crap players, made good players crap like Arsharvin, sold great players and traded them in for average ones.
I don't want to get in top 4, cause if we do were just papering over the cracks, and if we get in top 4
The main worry I have is this, If a £20 million bid came in for J Wilshire, would the board sell him? I think YES.
I Hope i'm wrong, but I vey much doubt it.
AndyS

I've seen Jimmy Carter and Eddie McGoldrick play!

You want those days and that style of football back? {Ed039's Note - Eddie McGoldrick, wow, I dont think I have heard that name said out loud for a long, long time)

Well all the so called fans need reminding what we we're like before AW.

1-0 to the Arsenal, and we were proud to sing this song celebrating our dull football. I for one, want AW to stay around.

I appreciate.

Romford Red.

04 Mar 2013 15:56:05
The main problems at arsenal are tactical. We can all talk about how 'silent stan' is ruining the club and the arab interest is a good thing, but fundementally the on pitch decisions are still made by an inept Arsene Wenger.

His total lack of respect for the opposition is embarressing. How can he not see the strengths and weaknesses of the teams we play and have a plan to counter them.

He has blind faith in a formation and a style of play that clearly does not work.

He cannot coach the defensive side of the game, he believes in attcking pressure but that allows us always to be caught on the counter. Teams know how we play we are now very predictable.

He constantly tries to shoehorn players into areas of the pitch were they are not comfortable and they become ineffective.

His undermining the abilities of younger players by picking them in crucial games, then dropping them for 10 games if they don't preform.

Leaving out senior pros i. e. rosicky and playing out of form players like diaby and ramsay.

The list of his mistakes is endless but the squad has potential, I just wish he would step out the way and let them develop.

A really good post that deserves you leave a tag too.

Now this post is a gooner that watches games and understands where we go wrong, wengers lack of tactics and stubbornness are destroying our team and their confidence, and making good players look bad.

We need to add quality to our team that is for sure but we also need to play players in their correct positions and give them a chance to prove themselves.

Over to you wenger

Shaneyd

Well said whoever posted this, it's been said for months now Wenger doesn't have a sodding clue what he is doing with the players at his disposal any more and it's been the case for years actually.

04 Mar 2013 15:28:30
In every post match interview and manager's email, Wenger says "we controlled the game", maybe I'm wrong but to me dominating possession but doing nothing with it having not cutting edge as we so often do isn't controlling a game. Especially when in nearly every game we make defensive mistakes and present other teams with a chance often there only in a game and they take it.

The defence is just embarrassing why hasn't Vermaelen been dropped? He's been poor this season and as our captain has shown the least amount of leadership of any of his season. We need a experience goalkeeper who can command his area and that the defenders will respect, we need a replacement for Sagna who looks like he no longer wants to be at the club though I was impressed when he filled in at centre back this season, who though I'm unsure though richards would always be my choice if he can get over his injures though I doubt Man city would sell must admit I can't think of many right backs we could go for. We need a combative, no nonsense, leader of a centre back like Hummels who's importance has been highlighted when he is missing for dortmund but who I doubt we would get or perhaps Sakho who has captained france all all youth levels and PSG as well but there are plenty of others. I think both Gibbs and Monreal are good leftbacks but I think we need more restraint from both when getting forward sometime we get left exposed because they are so adventurous. And finally we need a defensive midfielder, Wanyama, Capoue who ever just a physical presence who breaks up attacks, protects the defence and doesn't wander forward. But all this will be useless unless we start coaching the defence properly, or we will see the same again nobody taking responsibility everyone looking at everyone else and working as individuals not as a unit.

Upfront We are in desperate need of someone to put away our chances, as we lack that cutting edge who though is all personal preference, we've been linked with so many. I'd love Jovetic to join but to me and I could be alone he reminds me more of a Bergkamp than an Henry in the way he plays but I still think he could get us plenty of goals, I also think the experience and presence of mind Villa has could see him be a useful asset, but only at the right price.

Humour me if would be imagine what these five signings could do to our squad; Begovic-New RB-Hummels/Sakho-Koscielny/Mert-Monreal-Walcott-Wilshere-Wanyama-Cazorla-Jovetic-Villa. Leaving us with rotation options, cover and substitutes like szczesny-arteta-ramsey-Mert/Kos-jenkinson-gibbs-coquelin-giroud-ox etc and youth like Eisfeld and Gnabry. That is a proper squad, add who you like and look at the effect it has.

The problem is though that it takes five players and changes to the coaching to transform that to a competitive squad with real strength in depth. However if we had done this over the last few season we wouldn't need five players at one time, and if for example we had signed a real replacement for Lehmann rather than promote Almunia and replacements for Gilberto Silva and Flamini we may not even be in this position now think how differently things could have been. I know that it's lots of ifs but to me all this highlights is that by choosing profit over success the club now has to spend more money than they would of need to previously to even get back to the point we were at when we started our decline.

And what ever happened to all those youth players that played in the Carling Cup a few years ago who were meant to be the future of the club and take the league by storm?

I just can't wait for this season to be over, we've crashed out of every cup and the champions league exit seems just to be a formality, I pray that we finish in the top four, but I worry and I'm ashamed to say this that if we do this could be used to paper of the cracks I still hope we do though. And then the summer can see some changes at the club maybe in ownership, definitely in coaches and coaching, perhaps in management but the squad needs big investment. Thanks for reading if you did and sorry for the length just baffled by arsenal at the moment and I haven't even touched on the finances really, or Wenger's strange tactical decisions, poor signings and insistence on 4-3-3 and no plan b. Hope you all have a good day.

Two goals scored in almost the same manner, that is absolutly diabolical defending, and touch line management, in the rush to get back into the game, the fundamental basics were forgotten, and to make matters worse, live on telly for all the world to see, this season is turning into a west end farce, and next seasons not looking to good already, the end of this season, and the begining of the next season, will see our rivals planing for great nights of Champions League football, while we plan for what, another year of no trophies, and just a hope of a return to Europes top table, but at least the share holders will still be making money, (our money)of course. Plum Red.

04 Mar 2013 14:18:11
dont want to play in the europa league.

would rather finish 6th.

still can't understand why RVP and SONG were not replaced.

team looked great when we bought cazorla, podolski and giroud and then we sell 2 of our prized assets.

we have a manager that supports a major shareholder who if the rumors are true is about to run of with a £400mill profit.

i wonder how many supporters still have their rose tinted glasses on?

The thing I don't understand more with Van Persie yes his attitude stank and he wanted to go and I would of preferred that we replaced him rather than keep him, but why not just keep him for the year, he may not want to be at the club but he would of needed to perform to earn a good move, then if he went on a free so be it I would be annoyed, but we sold him for 24 million the same amount roughly we will miss out on by not qualifying for the champions league, and with him up front or on the bench we could of had someone that would of buried the chances like the one Giroud messed up yesterday and at Chelsea, we gifted United the title he has won it for them and that is hard to swallow. The Song move was the perfect opportunity for us to bring in a real defensive midfielder using the funds we made something we've need for years criminal that we didn't replace him.

Make no mistake, its not utd being gifted the title, its the spurs being gifted Champions League football that will hurt more. Plum Red

On the Song front I can't really see where he would fit in the team selection to be honest, was think the other day if he had stayed I can't really see he would have played much, who would you leave out to get Song in the squad? as RVP well that is possibly one of Wengers biggest mistake not investing that money straight back into a quality signing. personally think Podolski has the ability to get close to RVP but Wenger keeps sticking him out wide.
And if Podolski is joint top earner with Theo as reported it baffles me even more how and why Podolski is always the first to get subbed and the most likely of regulars to be benched. makes no sense to me at all.

Charlie, Song wasn't a prized asset at best he was a prized tool, can you post your starting 11 with current squad and Song in please would be interested to see it?

1404

1404 I think the point is it was15m in hand aswell as wages. Why wasn't it reinvested?
AG

AG I think you will find that money was reinvested, some of the board members had a nice holiday which meant they were reinvigorated to see what else they could sell to make more money out of the club, Silent Stan bought and had a new pool fitted so obviously that made him real estate profit and don't forget we are getting statue of DB10 so when that's unveiled people will rush to see it and go and spend cash in the stadium shop making the club more money not to spend on players. you really aren't looking at the bigger picture are you

1404

04 Mar 2013 13:25:50
1. why was jenkinson subed he was playing good

2. why was ramsey put in defence wtf?

3. why is podolski getting 10 mins to prove himself

4. why isn't ox chamb playing these days

Agree points 1-3 the sub and moving Ramsey to Rb was just odd and Podolski is the only forward comfortable in a 4-3-3 but Wenger decides not to start him yet again?.

On Point 4 Ox has not exactyly been a great form and worthy of a start but yes shouls still be a used as a option from the bench.

I agree with the first reply, I think the problem with the Ox can be explained like this:

The Ox doesn't play, because The Ox is off form, because The Ox doesn't play.

Metal, that is a very good reply, however IMO the OX was never ready to start for us, he should have gone back to Saints for a year on loan to develop more.

337

337 I'm not sure, I think what he needed was a consistent run. When he got that last season he was brilliant a lot of the time. He's had hardly any involvement this year and I bet if he'd stayed at Southampton he would be playing week in week out probably starting for them so you could say coming to Arsenal was a big mistake in terms of his development. But I don't think he should have gone away on loan I think he should be starting every game like Sterling was. Then if we need to rotate we can.

04 Mar 2013 12:37:07
A lot of people have been talking about Vermaelen's drop in quality, and saying he's one of the worst defenders they've ever seen. I disagree. He's one of the best defenders I've ever seen, playing terribly right now. I believe this is for a couple of reasons -

- His partnerships: when he played with Koscielny on the whole they were both brilliant, however Koscielny is error-prone and his game is based on confidence. He was dropped for no reason and hasn't been the same since. I truly believe as of today, Koscielny should be the first defender's name on the team sheet. Now all we see is Koscielny play here and there and they look rusty together.

However, with Mertesacker it's different. Koscielny may be slightly error-prone (or unfortunate more often than not) but he is unbelievably fast and very strong. At the opposite end we have Mertesacker is is twice the size, half the strength, no aerial presence and a fraction of the pace. Well if you're Vermaelen this instantly gives you a decision-making dilemma because you cannot just focus on your own game when you play with someone who is such an exploitable player. Yes Mertesacker plays better but I think this is a case of Vermaelen is poor because Mert is playing at all. If we had a different CB, for example Williams, Agger, an on-form Koscielny, Kompany, whatever, paired with Vermaelen, we'd have two CBs playing well, not just one.

Coaching: this is the other massive problem. Any pro sportsman will tell you a player's quality will drop without coaching. It's common knowledge defensive coaching happens at a minimum at Arsenal. It's even more common knowledge that when we had a top defensive coach actually doing it, we had the best defence in the league after 2 months. As soon as Wenger stopped this, our defence went into decline. In fact, considering Mertesacker and Verm were our starting pair during that period I would have to say this is by far the most significant problem and the personnel choice is the secondary factor.

Vermaelen came here as an amazing defender and slowly but surely his quality has decreased and now we all expect a weak game from him. This doesn't happen if the coaching is there. Form fluctuates but this isn't a fluctuation, it's consistent.

I would put money on our defence improving tenfold regardless of who plays if Bould was given the reigns again. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if all that stuff about Bould saying 'How many times do I have to tell you' to Wenger is true. Something needs to change with the coaching.

Good post mate! We can go buy the worlds two best defenders and we will still have a shocking defence. The problem lies in the tactics applied and lack of coaching!
Mark SaGooner

Spot on metal, what is worrying me is good players that join us get worse now, why!
I don't wanna watch perfect passing around the half way line what is the point of 60%+ possession when we don't score it's the coaching we are no longer prepared for a game.
Sagalout

Merson always stresses without the ball were one of the worst teams,

Its naievity and lazyness its not hard to do the basics, closing down and making a presence, I think this is why he plays ramsey,

You can have all the talent but you have to aplly yourself correctly

yorkshire gooner Joe :D

04 Mar 2013 12:03:38
For me Theo gets a 1 out of 10 yesterday, his performance was a disgrace. Walking about, watching the midfield struggle as Sigurddson, Dembele, Parker and Bale copied our passing style, did he even make one tackle all game? Did he track back into our own half at all? If that isn't a droppable performance I don't know what is. Lennon even showed him what to do and still he didn't.

The thing is, Lennon is so fast that even if Monreal had got the jump on his run and even if he had yelled something at Vermaelen, there's still every chance it would have been a goal - because our line was TOO HIGH WENGER. But there's every chance it wouldn't have been HAD THE DEFENCE BEEN TRAINED WENGER - trained to drop off. Playing a high line when the ball is only 35 yards or less from goal is so dangerous. Bould would know this. And where was Szczesny's awareness? What's that running from wide left into the centre behind my defence? Oh that's right it's Lennon - I guess I'll just stay on my line til he's got the ball at his feet in the box shall I? As a keeper it's one of several things he is supposed to anticipate. The other is long shots. Madness the way we have a keeper that will make some of the most ridiculous saves you will see all season and then concede such cheap goals. But I'm not furious with him, I just think he could have perhaps done more. I am furious with the defence.

I am furious with the midfield. However, even then I can't be too furious with them because the simple fact that we see the same crap every time we play tells me it's coaching issues. There's nobody in the team saying 'nobody's covering, I'll do it. ' It seems to be 'there's nobody covering, let's see what happens. ' So the manager and players are equally to blame. When I was CM and the DM was as high up as me, if there was a gaping hole at LB and I was closer to it, I did what I could to cover, simple as. In the words of Wenger, if you do not concede you cannot lose and that is how you win things. Who in our team plays like that? Nobody. Every player outside of defence wants to play attacking football first and defend second, and the defence is a shambles. Someone tell me how we're even 5th?

People blaming Ramsey's performance for our loss need to look at themselves. Wenger's performance is why we lost. If Wenger said to Ramsey 'you are our defensive midfielder, I don't want you in their half unless it's absolutely vital. On corners I want you in the centre circle anticipating the ball coming out, that's it - you're the def mid, no questions, protect that defence like your life depends on it' we would have more shutouts than any other team because imo Ramsey is probably the second hardest working player in the league after Milner, he just needs to be given a position in which he can be effective, and he needs coaching. You can tell he isn't coached properly.

Some of you still support Wenger and all I can say is if everyone were the same then this world would be a boring place. If yesterday didn't prove that Wenger has no idea what he is doing with this group of players not to mention his support staff then you will never be convinced and arguably fans like you are dangerous for the progression of a club. If a man can do no wrong that is worrying. 'Blame Vermaelen and Monreal, blame this, blame that, don't blame Wenger' - no. Blame Wenger. He has a team he has NO CLUE how to use. Proof:

-He plays Giroud as a lone striker. This worked for periods when Santi played behind him but now he doesn't and at best that was inconsistent. He is a 2 up top player.

-Podolski gets played wide left for Germany because his talent is too good to leave out - not because he's so good out there. He is a central player. One of 2 up top. He is also a sub. We could have bought a million players better for the job of wide left than Pod, he is wasted out there.

-Ramsey gets played all over the place when really, as I believe I made quite clear about 2 and a half years ago, he simply isn't right for us. I have since updated that belief as far as saying he could be amazing in the DM role but he isn't given that job.

-Rosicky sits on the bench.

-Theo wasn't taken off.

-Giroud wasn't taken off.

-Koscielny doesn't start games. We're facing Bale and Lennon and he's on the bench? What?

-Vermaelen still hasn't been dropped.

-Our lack of plan A, B and C is shown by playing Wilshere Santi and Arteta all at the same time. It doesn't work, never has never will. At least one of those players should be on the bench, as someone who gives us great depth just like Lamps at Chelsea.

-What were our subs all about yesterday? And how many times have we heard '[defenders name] is out injured and is replaced by [attacker's name]' on the team sheet?

And finally - TEAM SPIRIT. There is more team spirit in 10 mins of a Liverpool game than there is in our entire season. Do our players even like each other? Where the ffff is this 'team spirit' Wenger? What the ffff do you think that even is Wenger? It's not turning up ffs Wenger, simply being on the sheet is NOT team spirit. Team spirit is coming back to help your defence. Team spirit is your defensive mid covering the defence at all costs before trying to go forward. Team spirit is your left back yelling at your CB giving him the heads up he needs to look lively. Team spirit is your captain yelling at Theo to do ANYTHING and in return Theo actually respecting him all the more for it. Team spirit is players looking at the effort Ramsey and Wilshere put in every game and thinking 'man they really play for me, perhaps I should play for them back - take note Theo, Sagna in particular. There is little I hate more in football than a lazy player. Team spirit is knowing Giroud isn't good enough as a lone striker and so supporting him any way you can.

I apologise for the ridiculous length of this rant but yesterday was yet another game we could have so easily won if such simple things that are repeats offences were addressed. Sometimes I just want to wake up in 5 years time to new ownership, new players and a new manager.

04 Mar 2013 12:26:16
fantastic post. spot on. the first line.
Ramsye should never play on the right.
ole would have been much better.

I was actually checking the team sheet. coz. I didn't find carzola.
was he in the picth?

walcot. I don't wanna say anthing. he has scored 18 goals for us. and leave it.

but what's this giroud?
how can he be a top 4 quality.

the first chance he got should have been burried if he was a top quality striker playing away games.

Did you actually watch the game? Walcott was one of the few players who actually put a real shift in. He was constantly making good runs but the midfield failed to pick him out time and again. Watch MOTD2 on iplayer if you disagree. I get fed up with there being so much baseless criticism of players!

Jensen Hatrick

Jensen Hatrick I was expecting you to show up sooner or later! First my video where I highlighted a clear cut shooting opportunity that wasn't taken by our attacking midfielder which you supported because he made a pass which led to a blocked shot which led to a rebound which led to a goal after some nice footwork from Santi. You missed the point there - that he should have shot himself. Then there were about two other posts where you chipped in, and now this one.

If you take the time to go watch Theo's entire performance again which I have then you'll see 90% of his runs are a combination of pointless and too early, and they lack any real purpose. I think he only made one run all game that actually drew a defender and that was when Ramsey failed to score.

Other than that he spent the whole game walking around. This wasn't a game we were 5-0 up this was the London derby and the points at stake were worth everything to someone like Jack and you look at Theo it looks like he couldn't have cared less! So don't tell me my criticism of players is not justified because I actually have the ability to look beyond 'Theo made a run' to see how much value in terms of potential that run actually had, and 9 times out of ten yesterday that value was non-existent - it was lazy, half-arsed, and thoughtless. The football equivalent of jobsworth!

I am not disagreeing that the midfield don't make the right passes and I have said in the past also how much it infuriates me that Sagna can't seem to put Theo on goal at all, it's so poor, but on yesterday's viewing alone I can't really say I agree that Theo 'put a shift in'. Lennon put a shift in.

Walcott has been played as a right midfielder ever since he signed a new contract. He obviously ignores this role and tries to play as attacking as he can so he can get some goals and get started in his preferred positon. I know this is not very professsional of him but I also did not see Wenher once on the sidelines shouting/coaching our team during the game or aby game to be honest. Wenger sits on his a$$ looking all upset and then does nothing to motivate or advise his team during games. We were woeful in defence yesterday and this is the reason we lost along with the wasted chance Giroud in the first 10 minutes. We did not lose because of Theo.

04 Mar 2013 10:28:47
walcott and giroud were poor yesterday if he had a better striker we eould of won at best both are impact players rather see padolski upfront!
imranredman

Podolski should be the first attacking player on the team sheet every week, simple.

04 Mar 2013 08:13:08
IMO I think Mertesacker is good but Vermaelan is 1 of the worst centre backs I've ever ever seen he's suicide

Mertesacker is crap as well there both not up 2 it
Imranredma

I would really consider playing TV5 at DCM, he could really fit in in that position and provide good cover, but as CB he just hasn't got it

1404

TV5 has just lost it Confidence wise. He was a top defender when he first arrived so It not like he not got quality.

I think the arrival of Mertasaker has upset the balance of the back line, and you can see TV5 is just not in tune atall with the Slower Mertasaker. TV5 likes to be the aggressive one pushing up and attacking the ball carrier but I think he gets caught in two minds all the time in trying to cover for Mertasakers slowness. He needs the recovery speed of Kos to cover him so that he can play his natural game.

Mertasaker Despite being a good reader of the game mentally has not got the physical attrubutes for our high line that we play.

I think we need to go back to a Kos TV5 partnership as they seem to work better together. We also desperatly need much better protection in front of the back 4. We have not got nobody to tackle/block off the ball carrier of the oppostion when we lose it in midfeild hence why it is easy for the oppostion to pick the passes as they have time and space top see the runners in front of them. The two goals we conceeded were classic examples of this.

Rather have Gus Caesar than those two.

Sorry Ed couldn't be bothered to login

Bergkamps apprentice 1

What about Andy Linighan?

04 Mar 2013 05:20:47
some might think this is dumb but here goes.


ed and fellow gooners I was just thinking if it becomes even more likely that we won't get into cl next season that could possibly make kroenke think about selling because won't the value of the club go down a bit even if we have these new deals with sponsors? if that's true and the rumors of a takeover are true then I could possibly settle for 5th if they take over because even if we don't get in cl we could offer big wages to big players like city did when they only made europa league and eventually they built a team and went on to win fa cup and title.
so I am just hoping kroenke will look to escape soon make a big profit and fxxk off I will keep wenger if he will spend big but otherwise he can do one to.
i'd like to hear your thoughts on this guys all opinions always welcome



gooner mark

Let's hope SK and AW go and take the others on the board with them

I agree, there are plus and minus points no matter where we finish this season so I will take whatever comes (well, I'll have to!).

When you know you could pay players what City United and Chelsea pay some of theirs without adding to the bill that's when you know there is a serious lack of accountability at the club.

04 Mar 2013 01:51:40
Out of interest: does anyone think we should be playing Koscielny and Mertesacker as our CB pairing? Vermaelen's form has been pretty average for the past 2 seasons in my opinion, but obviously it's hard not to play him when he's captain!

Macc Gooner

Yes, the armband is what's picking TV5 at the moment, typical Wenger he is always thinking about what a certain situation will do to the player rather than the team.

1404

I think mertsacker is the problem

watford gooner

03 Mar 2013 23:00:02
Just wish Giroud finishing was as good as his first touch.

03 Mar 2013 22:52:48
if and it's a big IF at this stage I decide to renew my season ticket, I for one will not be attending europa games out of protest (I know I shouldn't count chickens. but). Hope the freakin place is empty on a thurs night, I'm that angry with how our club is being run.

Not trying to act like a spoilt child, just the fact that we pay the highest prices in world football, only to have see our best players leave, without like for like replacements and see us go further down the league-I have had enough of it.

Well I hope the financial institution. er. club is happy with the profits.

The worse news I heard today was that apparently Kroneke said he is at arsenal for the long haul. jeez I really didn't want to hear that, that was almost as bad as today's result (maybe worse on refelction).
LG

100% with you (or NOT with you as the case may be) LG!

An empty stadium for Europa League is the PERFECT way to show our discontent without having to suffer losing our tickets permanently although, just like you, the jury's out whether me and the boys are renewing this year - feel completely mugged off!