Arsenal Banter Archive December 06 2012

 

Use our rumours form to send us arsenal transfer rumours.

06 Dec 2012 23:12:37
Can someone explain what compelled our club to refuse to sign Juan Mata but to allow the signing of Gervinho?
Really worried for Saturday, Long, Odemwingie and Lukaku can all cause individual problems and especially the latter as a substitute, I'm worried we will see the supposed "Drogba Mark II" dominate our defence.
Windsor Gooner

Believable8 Unbelievable2

I believe it was trying to do it with the fax machine and arguing over paying £1m more for him than we wanted to and about £2m more in wages than we were willing to. Bet it was a choice the club would still to this day say they are proud to have made.

Metal Gooner

Agree5 Disagree1

Erm, it isn't really a mystery.

Mata apparantly, and it was never confirmed, had a release clause of about £12m for a period prior to going into his last year with Valencia, no club matched this amount, or he didn't agree to any move, so he didn't move, probably as an agreement with the club. When this clause expired, Arsenal still went for him, but as usual Chelski got involved and they simply out bid all other parties and ended up offering Valencia £25m and Mata 150k a week. As good as Mata is, he is not worth Arsenal setting new precedants that every player's agent would now be chasing.

Gervinho wanted a move to England. He had a year left and Lille were willing to sell. Newcastle almost got Gervinho, but Wenger swooped and outbid Pardew. Arsenal to Newcastle is the same as Chelsea to Arsenal. They went for Cisse the following Jan.

Had Gervinho gone to Newcastle, some people on here would still be moaning that we got outbid and missed out bigtime. Similarly, if we had got Ben Arfa, many would still complain of his attitude, or Ba with his injury record. Newcastle's risks on players have proven to be better than Arsenal's for the last two seasons, but we still got 3rd place, they are now struggling with a long season congested with Europa games. Remember Big Fish in Small Ponds often don't cut it in the Big Ponds.

Had Arsenal signed Mata, some people on here would still say we need more physical players, he doesn't have a fixed/preferred position etc etc and we wouldn't have gone for Cazorla or Podolski a year later. Not all of Chelsea's purchases have proven to be anywhere near as good.

You just can't win with all fans. We get it right more often than not though.

You mention Odenwingie. Now that was a striker we should have got, an experienced, consumeate professional that wanted Prem football and knows how to play the offside trap as well as any striker around, for £2m, wouldn't have been much of a risk for us. At WBA he is the main man, but he wouldn't be a starter or a "Big Fish" for us so no doubt his stats would be down and people would moan about him.

Oli Giroud is Drogba Mark II - he has come up through the ranks of French football in a similar manner, proving himself at each level. Lukaku isn't now and won't ever be close to Drogba.

COYG 2-1 win

gun44

Agree10 Disagree3

Chelsea's approach on mata was shameless. It had nothing to do with us... It was that lack of ethics by Valencia, which is why we will not deal with them in future.

The insider story goes, that agent was given a significantly larger if, and Valencia would get a larger transfer ONLY, if they did not tell Arsenal anything.

To our knowledge, the player was ours, and we only found out about chelsea bid, after docs were done.

This was in no way Wenger's fault. Blame a industry full of dodgy agents.

Billybob

Agree7 Disagree1

06 Dec 2012 20:40:33
If Arsenal were winning/ challenging for trophies on a consistant basis would we still be happy paying the highest ticket prices in the league?

Just because they can charge it doesn't necessarily mean that they should.

Agree if you would pay, disagree if you would still feel like you would be paying over the odds.

WG

Believable6 Unbelievable2

It's a weird question - I don't think we should be paying any more than Man City - they are the only team with a similar stadium.

At the end of the day the 4th richest club in the world should the 4th best players, the 4th highest wage bill and challenge for honours, as that is what the money is supposed to be for.

If we had the 4th most expensive tickets then technically we couldn't complain.

All I know is Chelsea and City furnish their squad with some of the best players in the world and they have no desire to rip their fans off.

Agree1 Disagree1

Not all tickets are the dearest by the way, there is quite a lot of difference. Eg, our cheapest tickets are cheaper than many other clubs cheapest tickets.

I just don't mind paying to see entertainment, talent and hard work. But this season is the first that I have actually had to think twice about a free ticket, especially on a cold night with travel delays.

gun44

Agree0 Disagree0

06 Dec 2012 20:10:39
I've thought about the beginning of the season and what we did right then and what we are doing now and I was shocked to realize that what we have been missing is diaby. He is a game changer and he was the best player maybe besides cazorla for the gunners for the first month or so of the season. And once he went down we started to play much worse. We have become stagnant and boring. He needs to stay fit for us to at least challenge. We have become a laughing stock and I'm worried we will become Liverpool. We need a signing or two and I've been hearing Adrian Lopez from atletico Madrid and huntelaar from schalke. We need a lb a midfield depth and a a striker or two. Arsene has the money and he must spend and if not we will fall to mid table mediocrity.

Steve

Believable3 Unbelievable1

Keep your expectations low if you think Diaby is going to help us this season!

Just because he looks a little bit like Viera, does not mean a thing. He is not our Viera, he is our Ledley King.

And he is not a GAME CHANGER anyway, the handful of games he did play in were very unspectacular and to emphasise this Gervinho was being heralded as a star striker at the time!

0-0 draws with Sunderland and Stoke,
A nervy CL win against debutants Montpellier,
He did not play in our 6-1 trashing of Southampton,
A decent win against a new and disjointed Liverpool,
Injured in loss to Chelsea.

5 games = one of best players LOL


Your blind faith in players like Diaby, Gibbs and Rosicky is as bad as Wenger's.

Out of everyone in the last 6 years, Diaby is the biggest letdown. Pinning any hopes on him just playing let alone performing well, are foolish.

He has chronic muscular problems; the muscle tissue is eroding away, long inactive periods have made this worse. He will be released at the end of this season and will likely struggle to find a new club (and importantly new insurers). I do feel for him. He may not play pro football again in any of the big leagues.

redgoon

Agree4 Disagree1

06 Dec 2012 19:26:20
why the hell is our injury record so appalling we now have half a team missing for a must win game at the weekend even players who never play pick up injuries our medical dept needs a severe overhaul hope im wrong but have a terrible feeling about sats gameand the pressure on wenger then will be immense said it before but will say it again we must get rid of kroenke and gazidis...brum gooner

Believable9 Unbelievable0

Look up the average age of the squad up until 2006.

then look at the average of the squad from 2006 till now.

the training methods are no good for young players.

champagne charlie

Agree4 Disagree3

It is the training. It's been well-documented that our training levels are too high considering the intensity of an actual game now, and the frequency.

This has been spoken about for years on other arsneal forums and blogs. The players have even said the training is too intense for too long and too often.

When you have a game on a saturday, a game on a wednesday at home, then a game on sat, then a game on tues, you should not be training on the monday, the tuesday, thursday, friday, sunday and monday.

Man u do not do this. Chelsea do not do this. City do not do this.

We are the only club that still trains every day like we are in one competition, the games are a walk-over and half the players are still drunk or high from the night before.

If man U have a game on sunday, a game on weds, and a game on sun, they train once between each apparently. They don't do anywhere near what we do and the players get rest.

Agree4 Disagree1

06 Dec 2012 19:13:31
really nervous about weekend would take a scrappy one nil and 3 points don t like the way we are playing but still wait with baited breathe for every game ,supporting arsenal is hard at the moment just hope our old game can return with fast one touch penetrative football ,maybe rosicky will help.

ty.1

Believable7 Unbelievable0

06 Dec 2012 18:40:23
I keep reading posts that say, we are in all 4 competitions.
Were'nt you saying that last year? and several times in previous years?
Is that now considered our benchmark?
I would rather win 1 than progress and lose all 4 as we have been year after year.
Ike.

Believable6 Unbelievable3

It will be the same as the last 7 years,out of everything by febuary.

we will be trying to qualify for the cl and every 1 will think its a trophy.

gazidas will come out and say there will be funds available in the summer.

will i go on?

nah whats the point we all know the score!

champagne charlie

Agree6 Disagree5

Ike, we do win a trophy every year, it's called the 3rd-4th trophy.
That's our benchmark.

Ezdee

Agree2 Disagree0

06 Dec 2012 18:02:20
any 1 notice there was no video of the latest AGM on the arsenal website?

it was because the supporters that attended wanted answers and there was a revolt.

WHERE HAS THE CLUB I LOVE GONE!

champagne charlie

Believable8 Unbelievable9

Yea I was trying to find the full video and couldnt find it anywhere just snippets of the boards and big-wigs speeches not a single fans or supporters trust comment or question?????? SHADY

Agree1 Disagree0

06 Dec 2012 17:09:07
Lets get behind the team & drive them onto victory on Saturday. Come on you gunners.

Robbie Gooner

Believable11 Unbelievable2

Totally agree, I know it's hard and we are all very angry about the situation we are in but I really believe if our fans goin can sing all game and really get behind the team it will really help our players confidence and hopefully performance

Agree8 Disagree0

06 Dec 2012 16:23:12
Interesting fact that arsenal are 15th in the spenders league for the last 20years. And we seriously wounder why we are in the situation that we are!! I support Wenger and always will for what he has given us will never be truelly merited until he is gone. I also can see where champagne Charlie and likes are coming from this is a disgrace but we need someone from the club to explain to us the fans what's really going on instead of all the politics crap as we deserve more than that. Anyways here's to 3 points on Sunday and trying to build on our form and confidence. A.T.I.D

Beegkamp wonderland

Believable7 Unbelievable0

Bergy your joking!

we had the AGM and no 1 from the club would give a straight answer.

there just like the wenger fans on here,ask them a question and they call you a spud.

the club and any 1 that wants to be a part of their fantasy sustainability are a DISGRACE.

champagne charlie

Agree8 Disagree10

Think you'll find its Saturday

Agree0 Disagree0

Some clarity would be the least we should be owed by the club, the manager says one thing and the board says another and then Silent Stan says f**k all......give us a clue wtf is going on please.
If we aren't going to get trophies for our continued support at least give us some honesty, surely we deserve that?

1404

Agree3 Disagree0

1404,I know me and you did not see eye to eye on some things but thats all i ever wanted was HONESTY.

1ST you get wenger making stupid statements.

then you get gazidas

then you hill-wood

then you get tom fox

are people on here that blind? there passing the blame from 1 to the other.
the heat is on FOX now to take the heat away from wenger.

champagne charlie

Agree5 Disagree6

So because I want my club to be financially stable I'm a "DISGRACE" am I champagne charlie?

Agree1 Disagree1

It's funny that I get dug out for getting the match day wrong but no actual opinion on the point risen in the post. Champagne Charlie if only everyone had your passion for the club (which no one can deny) we might turn the emerites into a real hard place to one instead of people leaving 20min before the end which I find ironic as we pay highest tickets make the most of it lol. Anyway 3 points SATURDAY

Agree0 Disagree0

06 Dec 2012 15:47:23
With the Chief Commercial Officer saying that Arsenal are not only about winning and that their primary business objective is making sure that fans are happy and making the fans who live abroad feel like they belong. The first thing that came to my mind was why at this moment is time when we haven't won for a while, there is huge pressure on the club and there was a march last weekend why they would say this now to me it just seems counter productive, and surely winning would make the fans happy? Or am I missing something here.

I also saw a great article by Martin Samuel of the Daily Mail. He makes the point that Wenger used to solve or issues now he just solves our rivals. He also questions the money we have to spend what ever it maybe he guess between 30-70 million if you add the money from the Emirates deal. He asks why if we really have all this money Van Persie isn't our striker still; he wanted a better contract and guarantees about the future. He says everyone always expects the club and Wenger to spend and he never does even towards the end of our days at Highbury. He also points out that our transfer policy of sell best player replace with two inferior players isn't uncommon but, not with top teams but rather teams in the bottom half of the table. He also discuss where we maybe with RVP's goal. How if you look at teams that continue to flirt with relegation much like we do with getting fourth in the end if enough isn't down you will get relegated like Bolton did last year and this maybe that year for us when it comes to finishing 4th. And finally he points out that in two years time when Gazidis said we can compete then it maybe too late we have Wilshere, Vermaelen, Cazorla etc, and 40million could really build on a decent core but in 2 years time 40 million or more maybe need just to rebuild the squad. If you haven't read it try to its a really good piece in my opinion. Phil McNulty of the BBC also has written a really good piece that highlights similar issues again worth a read.

It got me thinking, I don't understand why Wenger gets involved with the club finances and so publically at that, he said recently that the club must make £15million a year in profit, I maybe wrong but I haven't heard Ferguson, Mourinho or Guradiola talking about this so why does Wenger. He has again come out and distanced himself from making signings in January. While I admit that the January window is not the best time to buy players as the clubs often want inflated prices, with the position we are currently in and the fact we are so short in certain positions then I'm afraid we really have no option but to add a player or two, and at the end of the day the fact we have to do so is primarily the clubs fault.

I would like to point out that I don't think Wenger is the only one to blame, and I don't let the this current patch in his Arsenal career detract from what he has achieved, but I also don't let what he has achieved in the past cloud my judgement and with the current situation after such a prolonged period of decline and failure to win trophies I think we must say enough is enough and act sooner rather than later. We as a club are stagnating we are sliding down the table the quality of out squads are on the down, the board, Kroenke and Gazidis who I blame just as much as Wenger, seem to be happy with the direction the club are going in palming off our issues and talking about a magic fix that will happen in two years which I just don't see. What annoys me the most though is that fans, journalists, pundits on television and even ex arsenal players are all calling for the same thing year after year and nothing happened, If we can all see it why can't they? why do they insist on being so stubborn? How long has it been said we need to a defensive midfielder? How long has it been said we need experience? United and Chelsea still have players left in the squad from 2005 the last time we won a trophy we have none. How long have people been saying that this leaving contracts till the final year or there about needs to be addressed? Personally I'm excited by Jenkinson he looks really good but we should still try and keep Sagna he may not have the same effect RVP or Nasri could do should they have signed new deals, but he is experience and could help Jenkinson and others develop, Walcott on the other hand must be given a new contract end off. How many times have people said we are three players away from a squad that can compete for the premier league? Now we have ex players saying that this is the worst squad we have had for a long time or the best thing that could happen to us is not finishing in the top four to shock the club into action, this is just ridiculous we should not have to fail to wake the board to the obvious issues at the club. And I can't stand to hear we have so and so returning from injury and they will be like a new signing.

For me at the end of the season we should move for Jurgen Klopp, I say at the end of the season firstly as I doubt he would leave Dortmund mid season and secondly to give Wenger the chance to sort out this season, and be there are accountable should we miss out on top four. Jurgen Klopp is exactly what we need, he plays free flowing passing football, with a high intensity and a policy of defend from the front their forwards win the ball back so much. Dortmund much like Arsenal don't have the same funds as the top team in their case Bayern yet he still competes look at his signing for example Hummels signed from Bayern for 4 million Euros and now widely regarded as one of the best defenders in the world. He does business Arsenal will be proud of, look how much he made on Kagawa but unlike us he reinvested a large portion in the signing of Reus, who has been on fire for them. If you've got the chance look at his signings, philosophy and just what he has done for the club he is exactly what we need and I personally feel unless we act soon a club another club will move for him perhaps Madrid Mourinho is widely expected to leave soon.

I know this post was long, and I may jump about a bit and just touching on some areas, but I really just wanted to share some of my thoughts, it's like banging your head against a brick wall supporting Arsenal, and don't get me wrong I would support Arsenal no matter what. I will get behind the team again on the weekend and don't want us to fail for my point to be proved and changes to be made, hoping even though I doubt we will that January will bring some new players like Huntelaar and we will finish fourth and above Spurs. Hope you all have a good day.

A Jaded Will.

Believable12 Unbelievable3

Thank you for this post.

Agree3 Disagree1

This is the best post I've read on here this year, sums it up perfectly.
Smudge

Agree1 Disagree0

06 Dec 2012 17:25:57
How many of the Alex Song haters from last season would take him back right now?

D-Dot

Believable8 Unbelievable9

I never hated the guy, in fact I always thought he was underrated. Was prone to a loose pass here and there, and was getting better and better at picking a pass.

I am, as a certain UKIP Leader once said, 'BAFFLED' by the whole thing.... All will out in the end.

A proper DM is one of the major things we lack at present. I'm sure Wenger thinks that Coquelin is the man for the position. The problem is we as a team are not going forward enough for him to make errors whilst learning his trade. It is a very pressured role at this present time.

Kermit79

Agree1 Disagree2

I was one of the first who wanted him out. BUT you can go and read every single post I ever wrote - I said we needed to replace him with a true DM.

We didn't, and now look at us.

I said I don't care if we sell RVP - SO LONG AS WE REPLACE HIM. We didn't. No Aguero/Cavani type elite player. Not even a Munain/Reus type player. We added to the squad 2 strikers we badly need WITH RVP HERE and then sold Robin.

Disgraceful.

I would take Song back because we never signed his replacement, Arteta isn't a DM and nor is Jack - as usual our best DM, who doesn't even like doing it - Diaby - is out all season, and instead we have an abundance of CMs and ACMs who won't do their jobs properly.

How on earth do other teams make forward strides yet Arsenal FC, with all their fans and money, get weaker, and don't even replace players.

Metal Gooner

Agree10 Disagree0

No thanks.

1404

Agree3 Disagree0

06 dec 2012 15:50:10
lets get 1 thing straight.

i support arsenal fc not arsene wenger fc.

when he goes i hope all his supporters follow him out.

champagne charlie

Believable9 Unbelievable25

If he doesn't go, will you be leaving?

Agree15 Disagree4

06 Dec 2012 17:34:33
Champagne Charlie,

I think we all know exactly what you think. This is a Rumour/Banter site for all matters Arsenal, irrelevant of who you like in any part of the club it is to do with Arsenal, to make that statement is just plainly and simply childish.

You do yourself no favours with the manner and words you use when you post, you talk of people using the research button to see what you've posted previously when it's apparent you've gone under the guise of various names, so how would we know what you wrote apart from the obvious WENGER OUT and GREAT POST MATE when someone says something negative about Wenger and or the Board.

You also make everything you say valueless, it's apparent when you even submit a post that simply asks the Ed a valid question everyone's on the disagree button like a tramp on chips.

You've managed to give yourself little to no standing on here other than ridicule, you say you're not rude to people but you told another fan to push off the other day, when we're all entitled to an opinion, they don't have to be yours. You even had a go at Mofaya a couple of days ago as you felt the need to make out you were the best fan Arsenal ever had.

You state you've been to numerous games but you never come on and speak about the game or the team, what you thought of them and who did what. You make me doubt you've ever been to a game. You felt the need to speak about some pub you went to on an away trip as if you had to prove you had been, said you came on here to vent your anger, why not vent it with the mates you allegedly attended the game with and come on here to tell us who did what etc.

You went on about the Black scarf March and then suddenly in a little post added later you couldn't attend because of family commitments, it makes me doubt you even live in London mate.

Man we all get hacked off because we're all fans / supporters whichever way you look at it, but we're all for Arsenal, so do yourself a massive favour and chill out, we know you don't like Arsene and the board; we don't really need to know that every day of every week and so vociferously.

It's not all a big conspiracy.

Stoner

Agree19 Disagree4

Charlie no one supports arsene wenger FC? Just because they don't want him sacked doesn't mean they support him not the club ? These people are still gooners and the more ther merrier !


Yorkshire gooner Joe :D

Agree17 Disagree1

Club first manager second for me, i like Wenger and wont be going anywhere if he leaves...........sorry to disappoint you Charlie :) but if he dosen't go i hope Charlie sticks around..........we NEED the balance.

1404

Agree8 Disagree0

Very well put stoner! Charlie you really do need to calm down.

337

Agree9 Disagree0

Your right i dont live in england.

i told you all weeks ago i will speak my mind and if you dont like it do not read my posts.

at least i do not change my point of views from week to week unlike some.

i hope we loose against w.b.a, in actual fact i hope we loose every game thats left this season.

if it means going backwards to go forward so be it.

the nightmare will finally be over.

wenger out

champagne charlie

Agree6 Disagree12

Champagne Charlie always hits the nail in the head. All the other fans are just deluded and are Wenger groupies. 7 years guys! Wenger has had too much time and not only has his experiment failed but it is not going anywhere. If we had just spend say 20 million extra each year we would have been winning by the truck loads and in turn we would have additional 50 million revenues (more fans, mechandise, players wanting to play for us).

now it is just a downward spiral which is getting too much to watch and getting worse by the day.


Ash

Agree5 Disagree4

You live in Malaga don,t you Charlie?

Agree8 Disagree1

06 Dec 2012 14:28:07
Anyone who backs football players getting more than 50k a week are just persons, football players are nothing special, they dont put on a uniform and fight for you, look after you while you are sick, protect you from criminals and save you from a burning house, so i ask you this why should they get paid more in a week than any of the people do in 2 years of hard alot of the time jobs where they dont get even a thank you, football players are just that, they are paid to kick a ball around where most of us do it for free, its about time these footballers were told that they are nothing but cry babies.

20 years ago the highest wages were 5k, it has taken a massive leap in pay rises to what it is now, now ive read alot of fans saying so what the money only goes to the owners and share holders, dont you realise that ticket prices are massive because of the player wages, dont you realise that less money goes into grass rout football because of the wages, paying high wages takes the money away from other things, im sure if alot of clubs didnt have to pay high wages they could have either saved the club like leeds and pourtsmouth or go towards building improvements on stadiums, but clubs cant do this because of high player wages.

The way it is going in 10 years there will be alot less clubs and players wages will be around 500k a week, its funny how alot of people seem to think 60k a week is not much, well it is alot, ask yourself what you would do with 60k a week and would you be happy getting it, football players are nothing but a bunch of greedy people who think they are gods, there is not one football player who is a real hero yet the press seems to like calling them heros, a real hero are the men and women who get up in the morning and put their life on the line to help others and are not paid enough, real heros are the people who teach our children, football players are just that, nothing more, time to teach these cry babies a lesson in that,

Its about time fifa and uefa brought in a wage cap of 30k a week, no more after all the players dont deserve more than that, transfer fees should be scaled with the best players at 20 million going down, its time football was brought back to the real world, oh and yes that will mean players like messie will be 20 million, but it also makes the whole football world better, as players will choose clubs on the club rather than what they get paid, the money saved can be used to help the surrounding areas of the clubs, ticket prices will fall, the game will get better as you would have more of an even field rather than have the clubs with mega rich owners buying all the talent and offering mega wages, because players wouldnt go to them if they didnt.

i know alot of people will insult me, this is only because they are persons who cant understand how the game is dying, its a shame the sport is not moving forward but instead is starting to self implode, so insult me, call me all the names you want, but remember one thing you know that i am right.

Believable7 Unbelievable4

Whilst I do agree that footballers don't deserve to make 250k a week,
they do.
So we unless everything changes and everyone takes a wage cut, we have to adapt to the situation.
Sitting here and complaining that footballers get paid too much doesn't do us any good, since as we argue, other clubs are paying large wages to sign the worlds best players.

Unfortunately that's how it is, and we have to do the best we can. If that means spending big money on wages to win titles, so be it.

Nick.

Nick.

Agree2 Disagree0

You cannot insult football players for accepting the wages which are offered to them, yes it is ridiculous amounts of money, but if that is the going rate who can blame them?

Not sure if you have a job, but if you do, if your boss offers you 50k per week will you say no thanks?

Agree3 Disagree0

Its called supply and demand.

Its just as engineering and mathematics is a dying subject much like media studies is now the most taught subject.

it depends what is glamorous. Why do people spend crazy amounts of money on designer brands and so forth...its all about brand image, about marketing, and many factors. I would give you a theory on all this but this is not the place nor the forum.

When you have clubs having annual turnover of nearly 150 million , you have a players union which wants atleast 40% of the clubs revenue to be invested in players salaries.

anyway in simple terms dont stress yourself, Van P*ssy is not going to make 5k a week even at age 50 as a television pundit in some shoddy league.

Lakerville

Agree0 Disagree0

We cannot insult you if we do not know who you are!

Agree0 Disagree1

I agree with you that all footballers are vastly over paid however theres no way fifa will bring in wage or transfer caps. Therefore we've got to pay our player competitive wages or they will just go elsewhere and we will fall even further from the other top clubs.

Agree0 Disagree0

Odd comments. Footballers are paid what the marketplace will pay them, even if its an absurd amount. Logically a nurse is a damnsight more useful & does are far more important job than a footballer, but their wages are far lower than footballers.

Agree2 Disagree0

06 Dec 2012 13:17:33
Dear Arsenal FC

You might sell our players every year and fail to replace them. You might cash in on our best performers instead of extending deals or building the team around them. You might only offer Sagna a one-year extension when Squid's contract lasts longer and he's older. You might tell the fans that when we move home the tickets will be cheaper because more people will attend games, then go back on your word and rip us off. You might give a football manager far too much freedom, no appraisal. You might watch him fail to replace players. You might watch him fail to improve the team. You might not question how we are the only team in the league who got worse when 19 other teams got much better. You might not face the reasons Sagna, Clichy, Nasri and Robin questioned what is going on at the club. You might have given them no option but to refuse to sign. You might be doing the same to Theo. You might allow Wenger to continue his preposterous reign as apparent owner of Arsene's Financial Company. You might come out and say 'we don't sign stars we make them' as though 1) that's something to be proud of when it's not, and 2) we don't, and 3) that totally undermines the natural talent of the player e.g. Cesc who could have gone to Rotherham and become the player he is today. You might say that we're an incredible brand worldwide and you might think you have the right to speak for the fans like we are all of learning difficulties and should be glad you even mentioned us. You might say we're 'proud' of the club's 'brand' (what does that even mean?) and you might make the incorrect assumption that the reason there is such a global fan base is nothing to do with what we won ten years ago and all to do with how the club is run (honestly, Tom Fox take a bow you pillock).

But let me tell you something. Karma and faith - two things you are testing. You are not a governing body you are a football club. You have totally alienated a generation of potential fans, seat-fillers, shirt-buyers, by being inept on the pitch and by hoarding finances and refusing to put into the team what the fans put into your pot of gold. Do not assume the fans will not vote with their feet. It may not happen this year, but it will happen. It started last year. The shirt sales will decrease (already have), fewer fans will turn up (already happening). Tickets will be returned (happened last year). We might have the politest fans in world football but we WILL vote with our feet. Carry on this nonsense all you like. Wait for FFP to do nothing. We will be here with folded arms saying 'you should have listened to us when you had the chance to prevent this slide to 14th in the table and no european football or big players.'

Seriously, keep going. I am not the first to have mentioned the obvious alienation of new lifelong supporters. I never see kids in the park wearing Arsenal shirts. Only people my age. We will not stand for the BS much longer. Bye bye Theo bye bye Sagna nice knowing you.

As for Karma - like I said, you are not a governing body. You cannot control the fans. Everything you fail to do now will come round to bite you in the ass. You reluctance to build a world class squad of winners and experienced talent will totally and utterly hinder us in the market when wage caps come in. Players will have no reason to join us when they can go to City, Chelsea etc and join a team of stars. Why would someone come to play with us? I'll tell you why - because they won't be good enough, and will be as surprised as the fans that the once-mighty Arsenal FC have come in for them.

The last 7 years have done nothing but pave the way for possibly 20 years+ of struggle because our football is shocking, our players are shocking, our wage bill is shocking, and our once great manager is shocking.

Round of applause for the marketing gurus with zero foresight who somehow run our club.

Believable17 Unbelievable6

At last,

WHAT A POST!!

you really should of signed your post because your the sort of supporter this site needs.

OUTSTANDING!

champagne charlie

Agree7 Disagree3

Great post. The club have forgotten what its here for. The temporary custodians have failed in their obligation to honour the history and meaning of being Arsenal. We are not a financial institution, the point of being is not to make money (or lose it at that), the point is to make the club as strong as possible within its means, wherever those means come from. Its easy to knock Chelsea, Man City etc but their owners are prepared to back the club, invest in the team and finance new facilities, not expect the fans to do it for them. We have the most useless board of directors in the premier league and a manager with no apparent fear of failure due to no repercussions.

Agree2 Disagree2

What's to disagree with here? Everything is true...

Agree2 Disagree2

06 Dec 2012 13:10:44
Apologies I didn't sign off.

Bones

Believable4 Unbelievable2

06 Dec 2012 13:09:36
I used to work in the financial sales industry and left as it was not putting the clients first only about how much profit I made for the company. Yes I was paid a bonus if I hit the company targets but I could lose it if my quality was not up to industry standard. If you missed monthly targets or lost sales, you could be sacked.

Use this same scenario with Arsenal. Us as fans are not at the centre of Arsenal's thoughts. We sell our best players to make more profit. The club set their sights on 4th each year, hardly ambitious. AW has not kept up with the fan's ambitions. In fact he is distancing himself more each week to the fans.

I have always been a big AW fan but enough is enough.
If we do not get 3 points on Saturday....his time is up.

Believable15 Unbelievable5

Well said !
champagne charlie

Agree3 Disagree13

06 Dec 2012 11:44:13
This season we will lose Walcott & Sagna.
Last season we lost RVP & Song
The season before we lost Nasri, Fabregas & Clichy.
Previously Adebayor, Flamini, Toure & Eboue.

These players form a team, a pretty good one at that.

I dont believe this is accidental, more a deliberate policy to cash in or could it simply be incompetence?

Meanwhile we signed the likes of Santos, Park, Squilacci & have ruined Arshavin, Ramsey & Chamakh.

We have gone from a winning formula, using tall athletic players in a 4-4-2 formation to smaller technical players in odd formations. Subsequently, we have suffered horrendous injury problems, taking eternity to remedy.

Wenger is now an odd commical figure, seen berating 4th officials, or bent over clutching his stomach.

We have sunk to 10th place & have to hope that we can somehow climb up to 4th & rescue our season.

I wouldnt get our hopes up in the coming window. We will no doubt sign Henry on loan again, I cant see it working this time. Wenger's excuse will be that we have a lot of players to choose from & having Rosicky & presumably Abu Diaby (remember him?) back, we have great competition for places.

Believable8 Unbelievable3

06 Dec 2012 11:07:35
Sagna to leave end of season....

walcott to leave end of season...

So what exactly are the board members trying to do?

why did they sign all these big mega deals to keep top players yet low ball them and keep all the junk that still exists?

every season seems to be getting worse, and the worst bit of it all, we are supporting this behaviour by showing up for games.

"Let me say at the risk of seeming ridiculous that the true revolutionary is guided by great feelings of love."

El Che


Lakerville

Believable5 Unbelievable2

06 Dec 2012 10:48:31
I thought I would start a little something on here with 2 words that appeared in The Sun newspaper today; TOM FOX.
Here is a man that holds the CCO role whose PR sense seems to be as cognisant as a placing a steak in a vegan salad.
For those of you who have not read what has been reportedly said please see an extract below (property of The Sun):

However, Fox said: Arsenal Football Club is not only about winning.
We have a large and engaged fan-base around the world who want to feel as if they belong to the club, and want to feel proud to belong to the club. That's my primary business.¯
Arsenal have sold stars like Robin van Persie, Cesc Fabregas and Samir Nasri in the last couple of years and face the prospect of losing Theo Walcott, too, with his contract expiring in the summer.
But Fox claimed that the supporters take pride in the club finding and developing young talent as well as the building of the Emirates Stadium.
He added: Obviously nothing instills pride in our fan-base more than winning, but there's many things we do that make our fans feel proud.
Developing young talent and finding those players in the marketplace make our fans feel proud.
Whether it's Serge Gnabry, who is a 17-year-old player in our reserve squad, whether it's Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, whether it's Theo Walcott, we look at these young players and have faith in our manager to develop them as the players for the future.
And the fans come to a stadium that the club built really at a time 10 years ago when the board decided to build that stadium.
Everything was going our way, it was Manchester United and Arsenal.
But we made a very bold decision and we built that stadium on time and on budget ” that makes our fans very proud.
When they see that we can attract ” even though we haven't won a trophy in seven years ” one of the top global brands in the world for the type of money and financial commitment they're making, that makes our fans feel proud.
So our brand is defined by more than winning.
Football can be a fairly mercenary commercial environment.
Football clubs go into the market and they really do business with whoever wants to pay them the most money.
By the time this current shirt deal expires with Emirates, they would have been on our shirt for 13 years.
That says a lot about how we run the football club and what's important to us as a football club.
So it's not just about finding the best commercial opportunity. Fox's comments did not go down well with Gunners supporters on the United Arab Emirates-based Sport 360 website which published the article.
One said: Are you drunk or something Mr Fox? Shut up.
Another asked: How do you create a huge fan-base if your club is not winning a trophy.¯
Wenger raised eyebrows when he suggested that qualifying for the Champions League was the equivalent of winning a trophy.
And this week he came out fighting, claiming the club was in fantastic shape¯. (end)


Back to my thoughts:

I appreciate that his main focus is on building the brand for commercial activities etc, but the message given out is one that many already know is happening. We are running a fine line between building a brand commercially to the detriment of the performance on the pitch, which, no matter how much charity work the club does etc, cannot build a fan base as quickly as being successful.

'Fan base' ultimately creates the revenues that keep a club going, as without success the trophy money dries up, and no matter the charitable side and how many youth prodigies are bought/created, Sponsors want to know that they will reach the maximum number of core demographic that associates with their brand to build their awareness to ultimately create more revenues. The bigger the fan base the bigger the commercial opportunity (stating the obvious here).There is a reason that the big brands don't sponsor the minnows in the league.

The analogy I would give is, it appears that Arsenal are to football as to what the government is to austerity. They are cutting spending, reducing debt, but is this could be to the detriment of 'growth'. As I said there is a fine line between cutting spending so much that growth stops and ultimately starts to decrease. Let's be honest, Conservative Football Club is not doing overly well on the pitch and their fan base is waning. Get things right and the supporters come flocking. I'm not saying that what the government is doing is wrong, I just wonder whether there is not a little more spending that could be done to improve their position. (I apologise if I lost you on this due to boredom.)

I am not passing complete judgement on the Club, as I have said before that I agree with the ethic that you have to be stable to provision long term stability and ultimately 'be in it to win it', when other fall by the wayside and go under.

I stand by my assertion that we need 3 players in key positions to be competitive (Striker, DM and a proper attacking left wing player). It is not all doom and gloom, but the club must realise that (which I'm sure they do) they need to strengthen, but more than that they need to get a growing contingent of fans onside, otherwise this negative atmosphere will continue to grow putting the team under increasing pressure; something they do not need at the present time.

We shall see what happens in January, not much I suspect, Huntelaar is a possibility, but unlikely due to the issues with this coming window.

My main gripe is the apparent lack of fight to be competitive on the pitch that could be achieved through 'sensible' purchases being made (i.e. sorting this issue with Walcott out). Playing hard ball to ultimately drop the ball is not the way to conduct things. I appreciate that the situation with Walcott may have some major stumbling blocks, but the exodus year on year at present is creating a NEGATIVE BRAND ASSOCIATION.

I love the club, I have not been worried before and I have vehemently supported the clubs ethos on not being bullied into silly deals by agents/clubs and trying to do things the 'right way'. The problem is people are starting to diverge on what that 'right way' is. Statements such as these (Mr Fox) made by senior members of the club give ammunition to the 'naysayers' and ultimately make Mr. Fox out to be very naive indeed.

Mr. Fox it seems does not understand that he is winding up the very fan base that ultimately has produced his CCO position at this great Soccer....I mean Football Club.

Kermit79 {Ed

Believable12 Unbelievable0

Great Post. The most sensible I have read in a long time on here

Agree6 Disagree0

Ed, you looked like you were about to comment, but gave up after 3 key strokes!

Does that some up my post all together?

'The strongest points are often made through their obvious omission.' Kermit79 2012.

Kermit79 {Ed002's Note - I changed my mind making a comment about "sensible purchases".}

Agree3 Disagree0

Has it taken for mr Fox to come out and say that for loads of my fellow gooners to wake up and see what's going on... been saying this for a while now.

we don't want wenger to go mid season, but do we really want this to keep going next season, we're yet to experience what the result is if we don't make 4th, we really don't want to go there.

for those that say its the board and not wengers fault, wrong! wenger and the board and a match made in heaven.

wenger's bonus is based on how much he doesn't spend and he only gets one if we finish 4th. thoughts?

Agree2 Disagree0

Great ploy lets take the emphasis of wenger and gazidas!

this is what the club has resorted too.

cant people see this a club is playing the supporters!

OPEN YOUR EYES

champagne charlie

Agree4 Disagree15

Champagne Charlie you obviously have too much time on your hands to think the way you do and to post as often as you do. Seriously man get a life its not all about your opinion have the decency to respect other peoples point of view especially when they write sensible posts.

Agree23 Disagree5

Never you mind how much time i have on my hands !

support your club not a tyrant!

we want our club back!!

champagne charlie

Agree4 Disagree10

06 Dec 2012 10:06:13
Banter please Eds. Thanks.
Josh,

Have to say mate that was probably the best post I've read in the few months I've been on this site.
I have always been a huge Arsene fan until this year when I'm afraid to say I for one have begun to doubt him. I have posted that I would like to see Klopp take over.

Having read your post and I know there are people for both sides of this ongoing banter of In Arsene we Trust and Wenger out, I have to admit that I have felt that I'd jumped the gun when I'd said pretty much that I wanted him out.

To be honest it was simply born of so much frustration, I had really high hopes for this season and but for one simple reason, Diaby taking a shot from the edge of the box against Chelski and doing his thigh muscle, I really also believe I would still have those high hopes.

I appreciate we are not a one man team but he was making a huge difference to the way we were playing, this is why I was hacked off with Arsene as It's difficult to know who's to blame re transfers, as in we didn't have a ready-made replacement in say Dembele. He was in our price range and why we didn't maybe buy Capoue, M'vila or Wanyama to cover some simple shortcomings is still a bit of a mystery, surely we are not that short of money.

We then lost Gibbs and he played Santos and having seen Meade play twice this season, including on Tuesday night then the decision to play Santos seems even more bizarre.

I don't pretend for one minute to know the 1st thing about managing a team or in reality the best tactics etc. to play against who and when but as a player in my youth I can guess that our better players must be pulling their hair out when they see the team sheet sometimes. It's been said that none of the Chelski team want to pass to Torres.

I think in a similar vein it's what's causing Vermaelen to be a bit off this year. He I'm again guessing has in his head he has to cover Mertersacker for the pace side of things and Santos when he's played, he was on the same wavelength as Koscielny last year and they got to know and trust each other. You just want to concentrate on your game not others.

I seemed to have side-tracked a bit there (does it make me like Ramsey) my point really being I and was going to use the word love but I do love football and Arsenal and don't profess to be the best, keenest, longest, most ardent fan/supporter in the world but if you love football it gets to you, you so want your team to do well, you want them to win every game and it does hurt when they don't and it does hurt when you see the likes of Chelski, Utd and Citeh winning stuff and splashing the cash, not that I want that in reality, as was said the German League is a great example now, but just enough for us to get back in the race that's all.

But all in all great post, I now have my feet firmly back on the ground and hope that we go on a run get the team brimming with confidence, Thomas is back, let's get Diaby back and a signing or two in January (that we can afford right now) and who knows. After all Chelski won the Champions league and no one really saw that coming.

Stoner

Believable21 Unbelievable1

I have to say stoner i am disappointed
you have changed your point of view.

josh wrote a good post putting across his point of view but it sounded more like something that would come out of ivan gazidas or the legend tom foxs mouth.

the only way to change the way the club is being run is with supporter power.

the views of people on here are not the same as last year and you need to go other sites to see the arsenal supporter are not happy.

saturday at the swansea game proved the supporter power has turned against the club.
2000 season ticket holders marched for change and around 7000 supporter boycotted the game or just could not be arsed to go because the football is rubbish.
i do not condone the booing at the game but i understand the reaction of paying customers who are not happy and feel the club is taking them for granted.

people on here can say there is a huge waiting list for season tickets but how many would actually pay over £1300 for a season ticket now compared to when the football was good?

josh wrote a good post but i do not agree with any of it.

i wonder if josh is part of the ivan gazidas spin doctor movement?
there is talk of the club trolling sites like this drumming up support!

champagne charlie

Agree2 Disagree23

Haha Charlie's lost it...it's all a conspiracy! !

Agree20 Disagree0

06 Dec 2012 11:56:49
It's not so much a change as a realisation Charlie, we are supporters of Arsenal, they came up with a plan that is as can be seen pushing us and particularly you and some others to the limit.

It's not nice being here but it's like running away from the battle when potentially the fights nearly won.

I also said previously I believe we're in a win win situation over the coming months, thus I for one want to stay backing Arsene and see out the last few rounds.

Stoner

Agree21 Disagree2

Lost it? Don't think he ever had it!

Agree16 Disagree1

Thanks Stoner, really kind of you to say that. I'm not a blind Wenger follower and I think we should have bought to replace Diaby when the inevitable injury happened and you're right on his random decisions at times. I just wanted to set out the context of what he's been working under.

Oh and Charlie, no I'm not a spin doctor nor a journo, though I do write a lot in my work.

Josh

Agree2 Disagree0

06 Dec 2012 09:57:15
I had to laugh when someone on here said the EPL is the best league in the world, you are kidding me. The most competitive yeah, but certainly not the best if you go by the Champions League evidence. La Liga & Bundesliga are the 2 best leagues in my humble opinion.
Usmanov Jnr

Believable5 Unbelievable1

Bundasliga - Damn I thought Chelsea beat Bayern last year in the final.

Agree3 Disagree2

The SPL is better than the Liga BBVA then, since the last time a team from they leagues met, Celtic won!

kev88

Agree3 Disagree0

Football is about luck as well, and they had the luck of the ages...if you go by stats alone, you will see chelsea had no business to make it past the round of 16.

Champions of Europe they are...

but also the first team in the history of the competition to not make the knockout stages...considering they only got the invite as they won the competition, and not by league standing, some title defese that is.

Agree1 Disagree1

Post no.2 - losing on penalties doesnt count as a defeat for Bayern, and the final happened this year :)

Agree0 Disagree0

06 Dec 2012 00:17:41
eds
when players are signed in january that have not played in european competitions can they be added to the squad.

champagne charlie {Ed001's Note - yes, you can also register one player who played in the other European competition for another club. So you could buy someone who has played in the Europa League and register him to play in your Champions League team, for instance Pepe Reina. Same as, for instance, Walcott moving to Liverpool would be eligible for the Europa League, if they chose to register him.}

Believable0 Unbelievable2