Arsenal Banter Archive February 06 2013

 

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06 Feb 2013 21:38:28
Jack Wilshere voted man of the match in tonight's England game!

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That surprises you does it?

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06 Feb 2013 21:34:43
Quite incredible how much better England look as a football team when they have jack wilshere in it. Arsenal fans know what to expect from wilshere every week, but now he totally upped his credentials by mimicking his club performances in an england shirt. Looking good isn't it.

Daniel

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Totally agree mate I sick to the back teeth with arguing with man united fans because they think Cleverly is better and they think 'honestly mate, outside of Arsenal, nobody really rates Wilshere' - pisses me off.

Really happy for Jack and Theo this evening, they did the club proud!

Metal Gooner {Ed007's Note - I would take Wilshere over Cleverley any day of the week MG. I have said on the Utd site more than once that for his age he is nowhere near the standard a Utd player should be at, along with Welbeck. The killer question is, if either played for a Wigan or Stoke, would they be on anyone's 'wish-list'?}

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For whichever club he decides to leave you for, yes.

TK-Red

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^^^ He's a red blooded gooner mate, he'd play for Arsenal for free if he had to, so will no doubt be with us for life.
We need more of these players coming through the youth system, but unfortunately are few and far between.

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07 Feb 2013 09:52:30
How surprising a bitter manc on here, gutted that they have cleverley and we have Jack. Thanks Tk red. Now jog on, there's a bad loser.

Stoner

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Bad loser stoner. ? You support Arsenal mate, you haven't got a trophies leg to stand on ;)

TK-Red

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Also don't be commenting about me being on here when you spend most of your time on the United page.

TK-Red

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06 Feb 2013 21:34:04
Jack's Man of the Match against Brazil! He's going to turn things around for us as well.

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06 Feb 2013 21:05:00
There are two of the reasons we did not sign Cahill, he's awful!

Believable7 Unbelievable6

And what's the other one?

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If you watched the game he made TWO errors straight after each other, one gifted them their goal and then he gave it away straight after.

No mathematition but that's makes TWO!

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06 Feb 2013 20:53:56
Neymar who?
Wilshere is the best player on the pitch.
(58 mins in, if he, Neymar, scores a hat trick now I'll take it back!)

Kermit79

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06 Feb 2013 20:49:41
Been watching some international football, must say Cavani vs Spain was awful definitely not worth his 30mil price tag I must say. His first touch was very bad and had very little impact on the game! In the Netherlands game vs Italy i'm very impressed with Adam Maher, he is in the thick of things and very creative player!

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Well it's now £54m! And he had the cheek to apparently come out and say 'If any club is serious about signing me then they cannot be put off by this figure' - shut up you arrogant weapon! It's not for you to comment on your value, doesn't matter how good you are. You wouldn't hear Messi going on about how much he's worth - Cavani should be honoured any club comes in for him ever, let alone £30m, never even MIND 54 million!

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06 Feb 2013 23:12:23
Cavani will be going for atleast 55M don't know you got 30M from?

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07 Feb 2013 06:28:49
Big difference between playing for club and country

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Then why did Jack and Santi play so well for their country then? Cavani isn't even worth 15mil from what I've seen! We much better off with Giroud thanks

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06 Feb 2013 19:58:31
OK its looking more and more likely this will be Sagna's last season with us.

so who's everyones choice for his replacement?

I'll throw one out there for starters - Juanfran.

Adds to the growing Spanish contingent, very good player whose performed at a high level for a long time and at the right age to allow Jenks to become first choice naturally when he's ready.


AG

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06 Feb 2013 17:35:48
Just a quick question would you rather spurs finish 3rd and we finish 4th or we finished 5th and they finished 6th?

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They finish 3rd and we finish 4th. must get that top four spot to play champions league and continue to attract world class players.

Trinidad-Gooner

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I hope your not serious


Watford gooner

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What a great question.

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I would 100% rather we finished top 4 and give them one season than finish outside of top 4.

I am a big fan of teams earning their spot - so I am not a fan of Chelsea having knocked spurs out of the Champs league because during the course of a whole EPL season Spurs did what it takes to earn that CL spot. If they were to do it again then so be it, I could live with the humiliation for a season if it means we are still in it. Dropping out would be a disaster and finishing above any lesser club, spurs included, would not go any way towards consoling that whatsoever, for me anyway!

Metal Gooner

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Stupid question!

I would prefer we finish 1st & they finish 20th!

Pete '63

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Them 3rd and us 4th. Better than Europa League and after all we got to admit that Spurs are a hell of a team.

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Us 5th them 6th but we win this seasons champions league

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06 Feb 2013 13:46:37
Is it just me that hopes one day Ashley Cole can come to the Emirates and be applauded? I'm over the bitterness now I think he has been vindicated by his trophy haul, we've won nothing whereas he has simply won and won and got better and better. I only wish he was doing it as our captain. I think it's time we recognised him as the greatest player ever to come through our academy rather than a hate figure.

Fab

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When will people realise that applauding these players for leaving to win things elsewhere is utter garbage!

He left for more money, at the time Chelsea were winning nothing and we were successful.

If these players had of hung around, they too would have won things with us.

How about you get behind our current players and forget about these Greedy To**ers.

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Greatest player to come through our academy? Tony Adams, Liam Brady and if only he could, bless him, David Rocastle may have a say there to name but three

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I hope you're the only one.

He's one of the biggest c**** in football and represents all that is wrong with the game. He has no concept of real life, the swerving off the road comment showed that, and he is, in general, a horrible little man.

I've seen him play several times since leaving Arsenal and although I think some of the chanting and abuse goes too far, part of me hopes that the message has got through to him that he can't behave like he has/does.

Paul

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The day he turned his back on arsenal was the day I stopped worrying about him.

he means nothing to me.

champagne charlie

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06 Feb 2013 19:28:08
On that basis you're no better than him. Show some class.

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He's the best left back england have ever had and one of the best left backs of his generation.
in hindsight i've lost a lot of hate I once had towards him.

i think the club are the ones worthy of more vitriol over the whole thing - to summise, we let the best left back in europe go to one of our biggest rivals for the sake of five grand a week.

and in return we got Willy Gallas, whom we paid 80k a week!

best left back in europe = £55k a week

or better than average utility defender = £80k a week?

hmmm gee that's a tough decision!

was Ashley worth that extra 5k? hell yes. the fact the club relied on him having some extreme loyalty where he would stay over 5k is disgraceful and just highlights the foolishness of the board at the time.


Yes, he's a bit of a hobnob, but he was a winner for us, a consistant reliable classy player who gave 110% every game.

Letting him go was in my opinion the biggest mistake Arsenal ever made.

AG

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He is a hate figure. His attitude doesn't deserve to be applauded. Jack Wilshere is the best player from our academy not Ca$hley.
Come on, why would we want some one who move because lack of 5k$ on his contract and one who shoot air rifle on junior player.

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06 Feb 2013 13:12:22
Just my thoughts on the discussion of contract negotiations and a reply to those who say we get it wrong with the 'deadwood'.

We all loved it when we signed Arshavin, he was a great player at the time. Other players were scouted and looked good, only to not fulfill potential for one reason or another.

No player will sign a contract that has a small salary and then bonus related pay, if they then don't play they're screwed.

There's not much that can be done, we want to attract these great players and those who show potential, we get annoyed when they choose Spurs/Man City etc over us, but if they are offered a better contract elsewhere then not many will join Arsenal on the terms you suggest.

Footballers are no different to you and I when it comes to contracts. If I was offered Contract A which was £100k a month basic and no performance related bonus and Contract be which was £20k a month and a possible further £80k in bonus I know which one I'd take.

You could then point at the long contracts offered and say these are a mistake, but we have all seen what happens when they're up for renewal; we get held to ransom by players (Walcott!)

It's a very tough negotiation, you win some and get it right:

Arteta - £70k/week - what a deal
Giroud - £60k/week - not many Prem teams pay their main striker less than £100k/week


You lose some and get it wrong:

Gervinho & Chamakh - £60k/week each, Squillaci - £50/week

There's a very rare few are genuinely happy to play for Arsenal when they could be on more elsewhere (Jack for example, before his newest contract he was on £60k and didn't demand more).

In the defense of Wenger and Law, they have worked hard to reduce the huge wage bill (more than £1m per week than Spurs spend on wages) by securing loan deals for players we consider to be 'deadwood'. Loaning out just Bendtner, Djourou and Chamakh has saved £7.8m a year (all on £50k/week, that's if we're not subsidising the loan)

That's my opinion on the matter, I still believe we are doing better on this than Manchester United - Nani on £90/week, Fletcher on £80k/week until 2016.

Paul

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This is a really good post, however I still think the club has a lot to answer for and it is too easy to simply say you win some you lose some.

Firstly, Chamakh gets paid at least £75kpw, not £60kpw. There are not many prem-adapted strikers earning that. We paid a massive signing on fee too. We gave him nothing to work for whatsoever. Same with Santos. £65kpw for what? A washed up unfit LB Fenerbahce were happy to flog. I would expect an ex-international Brazilian LB to be worth upwards of £10-20m aged just 28. We got him for 6m. £60kpw for a back up signing is less 'win some lose some' and more 'mental' - wonder what Enrique gets paid at Liverpool?

Giroud, again, we did well but even so, no less than what we should expect. We shouldn't be all surprised when the club gets it right. Realistically there's no way on earth Giroud deserved more - but we might decide to improve it after this season. Job's a good'un.

Gervinho I am not too fussed about. He got 18 goals each season in his last 2 before joining us and 10 assists to go alongside that in his final Lille season. Could have gone either way and actually I don't consider Gervinho to be deadwood. Just needs to sort his life out. End of the day Wenger had designs on Gerv slotting into the first team nicely and being big for us.

Paying Squid the same when he was designed to be a 4th-5th choice acquisition is what bothers me. He wasn't bought to be 1st to 3rd choice. How on earth can we justify paying a 31 yr old or however old he was guy who has never been international quality for event he weakest French generation in recent history £50kpw? That is just crazy! And defending it by saying 'if you can afford to do it, you do it' is even worse.

As for the wage bill, perhaps the Eds or more ITK people could point out how much we are subsidizing our loanees' wages. B52 should have been sold already. We had concrete interest from Bordeaux who badly want Chamakh and we ignored it for an entire year before loaning him to WH. We have opportunities to get rid of players, but because we wouldn't take one or 2m less in the summer, we've ended up paying those players that money in wages anyway. The worst part is the squad has remained bloated and better quality has not been able to come in.

There is simply no defending the fact that even now Djourou is STILL at the club. How was he not sold 2 or 3 windows ago? He is an awful defender. I used to see sense in the argument 'he's a great 4th choice' - no he's not, because 4th choice is often 1st or 2nd at various points in an arsenal season, be it league or cup run, and when they are awful on the pitch it doesn't matter what choice they are.

I don't begrudge Arshavin his wages because he was one of our best players for 2 seasons before being benched or pushed out wide. I am not sure if things went wrong in his personal life and he has just never got back up but he suffered at the hands of the fans after his 2nd season when he was played in a riskier more creative role and the fans didn't understand that it was his job to try things that sometimes wouldn't work. After that season his confidence disappeared, but he has shown in his cup games this season he is capable of something special when he is given the freedom to play his game. He was worth every penny for 2 years so I don't criticise the club for that. What I heavily question is the way he has flopped under the club's tutelage and nobody seems to care. The club seem happy to pay him the money, which is wasted as they don't play him, but also waste his exceptional talent and believe me he is still of exceptional talent, he is just horribly rusty. Still one of the best players we have, just rotting. If the club aren't interested in reviving him then why is he still here? Why not take the offer and run?

At the end of the day there are people employed by the club to make sure it is running efficiently and to prevent the oversights we have seen time and time again especially in recent years. I just accept that in a multi-million-pound elite level organisation like ours, the argument you win some you lose some really holds any merit barring the odd occasion. For example, Mata - yes I have griped that we didn't do enough but I also have to acknowled he that if we were dithering and Chelsea came in, offered more in fees and more wages to him, what can you do? How do we fans know Mata wasn't holding out for that deal all along?

Metal Gooner

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Man utd win trophies, which justifies the high wages. Arsenal don't win anything. Comparing Manchester United with Arsenal is stupid.

Daniel

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United generate more money than Arsenal, so they can afford to pay higher wages to buy the better players. For the amount of cash Arsenal buys you should be buying better players and paying higher salaries. It's the fans who are getting bent over here while Kroenke and Co collect their dividends.

Sydney!

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Correction Daniel - Arsenal makes a lot of money hence high wages could be acceptable for the right players regardless of trophies.

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Nani only get 90 a week? Wow!

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06 Feb 2013 11:47:34
Arsenal have to do something about the deadwood? don't give these kind of players so high salary put in match bonuses instead and they won't sitt on the arse for 3years, freeze them out let them be an attraction at picadelly. arhhhhh going crazy over them.

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And you think that we knew these players would not make the grade when we signed them? Deadwood is disrespectful as some of them have been ruined by lack of game time, example: Chamakh was flying when he joined, scored 10 goals whilst RVP was injured and when he was dropped for rvp ( rightly so) he lost confidence and match fitness - without a crystal ball how could this have been stopped?

Seriously stick to FIFA13

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06 Feb 2013 11:20:10
What do people think of the new website?


i wasn't particularly in love with the old one, but in my opinion this new one just looks like a flashy NFL teams page. so hard to find the info I want, and what's with the 3 column structure with the main stuff being split by advertising styled page links. ?

so new website a good change?

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I don't like it personally, I'll probably get used to it given time.
But the layout seems a bit hard to find what you want.

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It's awful. I really don't like it. Hope it didn't cost too much, Stan won't be very happy.

Paul

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Its one of those things you have to get used to

i hate change, but I prefer it today then I did yesterday

need to get the hang of it

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06 Feb 2013 10:11:14
Sagna thinks we fans are annoyed because of the psg link. No mate it's because you've been abysmal in the last few games

Gaston the goon

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06 Feb 2013 08:25:52
I know he is a w***er and up ther with cashley as one of the most hated ex players we have, but I was sitting at home triiping on how good a player Samir Nasri would have been had he stayed.

He would have slotted seamlessly into the no10 position with the ability to drift wide. Now instead of rivaling the likes of Mata and Silva as the best attacking mids in the league, he now plays second fiddle to one.

He f***ed up. really f***ed up

Believable24 Unbelievable1

See I don't hate Nasri, I don't think he was a ****** about wanting to leave, we don't think Arteta is a ****** for leaving Everton to better himself to come to us do we? so why should we think Nasri is, as far as I see it the players are treated no different from the fans, sold a dream of what was going to happen at the club that never materialised, and he has probably sat their seeing all the best players being sold and thought this isn't the club I thought I was joining. and in all honesty he has been quite quiet on leaving us, just shut up and got on with it, there has been a few in the past that could learn a few things from that.

I think we need to stop blaming players for wanting to leave and we need start asking why are they leaving and would we do the same if are own working environments were similar, I get that it hurts when they do especially when they go on to win things, but putting myself in the same situation I would be playing to win things, plain and simple no football player wants a plaque on the wall confirming their contribution to club stability, its trophies and medals they want.

1404

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Personally I think we all hate Nasri because he is Butt Ugly!

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I agree with both of you, yes part of me wishes nasri would have stayed because he is world class and scored some fantastic goals for us. he and fabregas in the middle would be ultimate.

but at the same time it's true that you cannot truly blame him for leaving either. if you worked for a company, and a competitor came to you and offered you triple the salary for the same job, you would be an person not to accept it right?

lets hope the new young generation of arsenal players are more loyal.

Trinidad-Gooner

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1404, I agree that if he had left to better his career (like cesc) then we couldn't have any problems. However the main motive of nasri leaving seems as though it was clearly money related. Arteta allegedly took a pay cut to come to arsenal, also if nasri had stayed we would have had a title winning team had wilshere not been injured last season

GTID

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Nasri, Clichi, Toure, Avabarndoor, even Cole went for more money, if the often stated fair play thing kicks in then the likes of Man c etc have got to start unloading big wage earners, in fact have some even started? Bellendtely has gone Teaves being muted, to name but 2 there, Lampard at Chelski. Let's all hope

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I fail to understand the hate for Nasri & the love for Fabregas. Fabregas was a rat who walked out on his beloved Barca, was paid a fortune to sign a long term deal at Arsenal, then walked out on us with 3 years left on his deal & was our captain. Nasri, had only a year left on his deal & could have walked at the end of the term, instead we got over £20m for him.

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But if Hleb had stayed and Flamini had stayed and Ade had stayed and Kolo had stayed and Cesc had stayed and Robin Van Penis had stayed and Clichy had stayed and if Song had. ok not Song

Most fans have a problem with Nasri because of the type of person he is perceived to be and not factually on the way he left, Hleb was a much bigger bell end than Nasri yet gets no abuse whatsoever.

1404

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It was in fabregas' contract that he would return to barca eventually it was just a matter of time, that is his home town.

but I think there is more hate towards nasri versus hleb and others because we sense that nasri was the best of the lot and had a real chance to become one of the best in the world with us. plus the fact that we signed him injured and gave him the opportunity to blossom into the star that he was. plus the fact that he said he was staying then just left just like that.

watever no shed tears Arsenal moves on!

Trinidad-Gooner

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1404 I am sure it's a case of out of sight out of mind with Hleb. Nobody cares about him, what he does has no impact on us as a club. However, Nasri went to direct rivals, they got stronger, we got weaker, they won the league, it sucks, he has also acted like a tool, he chats breeze, but I understand why he left. If anything, I am disappointed he hasn't improved. Even Walcott has improved! But still, who cares, he had moments of exceptional play but as a rule he slowed us down and couldn't be bothered half the time. We got such a ridiculous amount of money for him too. I am more bothered about RVP and Fabregas being sold, Song not being replaced, missing out on Enrique and Mata, etc etc. than the fact that Nasri has gone. At the end of the day no matter where we are in the league we always go toe to toe with the best teams in Europe and City certainly do not.

Metal Gooner

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Hleb has publicly stated a few years back that it was the biggest mistake of his life leaving AFC. I think the post about 'rat' cesc is a bit harsh- Cesc came to AFC very young as he knew he would get 1st team football much earlier- he then stayed a long time did very well for us and himself but at least he did agree to sign a new contract so that AFC got a shed load for him. even the man TH14. well he left for a pretty big payday at the end

exiled clock ender

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06 Feb 2013 08:19:05
How good is this Apkom kid, or rather how good can he be?
Is he someone who can potentially have a role in our first team? This time last season I thought Afobe would be a useful addition to our attack with his pace and robust nature.

Are Gnabry and Eisfeldt the only ones who will graduate from the reserves/youth team to the senior squad?

Something I have noticed is we seem to be too impatient with our own youth players, i'm not talking about the ones we buy from other clubs youth academies but the likes of Bartley and Afobe would have been integrated into the squad last season is we are so confident in our academy.

In an ideal world, Jay Emanuel-Thomas would have had the right attitude disciplined into him while he was still that promising 17 year old wanting to play for a big club.

Every season we lose a promising youth player whether its on good terms or not, players like Merida, Bartley, Ozyakup, Emanuel-Thomas, Nordveidt and Lansbury would have had a proper future at Arsenal had our squad been more experienced then or as good as it was when Fabregas and Van Persie were trying to break into the side.

Super Jacky Wilshere!

Suuuuper Super Jack.

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This for me is one of the most frustrating things about the club. We have a man obsessed with youth, and a PR team who have somehow managed to turn the phrase 'We don't buy stars, we make them' into some kind of trademark, yet we completely neglect our own youth system.

It's only been in recent years that I have paid much attention to the youth but the only thing it has led to is disappointment.

Ozyakup was one of the most exciting prospects we had at the club - gone. JET, gone. Bartley is the one that confuses me the most, he is a beast and having him as an option instead of of using our 3 tired/jaded CBs every week and fearing which one will cock up next is horrible. I would love us to have Bartley back. How can we turn our backs on such obviously good players?

Lansbury I can understand why we sold, but I still don't think he was ever given a chance to prove himself at all. As for Afobe - well it's embarrassing considering how we have struggled up front. Wenger seems to hate strikers. Not a single one has come anywhere near the first team from the youth and reserve set up in YEARS. JET, one of the most talented players we had, ditched. Afobe, plays 20 mins looks great, loaned out. Watt not good enough. We sell Vela, loan out B52 and Park, persist with Chamakh, but Afobe? Nope. It is crazy. Afobe is a good player - what happened to putting in the time and effort helping these players realise their potential?

As for more current things - how many times did Yennaris prove he is an awesome wing back? This kid is a terrier, he is very strong too, he's rapid, and he's hungry. But no, JENKO doesn't even get games let alone Yennaris! And what about Meade? That kid was more exciting in 2 appearances than any left back we have had since Cashley. We now have Gibbs, Nacho and Santos - wonder how long Meade will be at the club. Look at Southampton, they bring kids through, then actually play them in the first team instead of ignoring them, then sell them for a fortune. They made a lot of money doing that. How is our insanely amazing academy not creating similar funds? You telling me we don't have any young players as promising as theirs?

I don't know. I feel disappointed for the players I really do. To stay at the club from a young age through to 17-19, get near the first team, then get exiled on loan for a year or two and never make it, what's the point?

And what manager can honestly justify leaving a player with such obvious talent as Meade at home and giving Santos a game? If wages were not considered, Meade would be picked every time.

What about Eisfeld? This kid would already be playing in the Dortmund first team on a regular basis. Why did we sign him? He comes on for half an hour and wipes the floor with Arshavin, Ramsey, Rosicky at times, his attitude is outstanding. Then what? He sat there for months wondering why the f*** he left Germany.

I absolutely hate they way we are so hypocritical about youth, all we do is ignore it.

Metal Gooner

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Hey Metal. Us. The fans, moan when there are no signings (me included btw) and moan when we don't play the youth players.

Meade was injured when Gibbs was injured which also partially explains Navo's signing. Eisfield had to bulk up and get some playing time and Gnarsby fluffed his lines on his debut.

At he moment we can't experiment with 4th so far away and as talented as JET may have been his attitude was poor. His fault, not the club's.

As for Afobe if you read the reviews from fans at his current loan club he currently does not track back and has only started improving this basic element of his game now.

We have 4 players that could make it and will be damn lucky if 2 of those do in the next 2 seasons. The new rules will help btw.

Hackney Gooner

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Hackney, we do moan this is true, but I don't think it's unfounded!

Everything is contextual. I don't care if we don't sign someone, if we play a youth player who could do an excellent job. If we do sign someone I want them to be better than what we already have at the club. There is no way Santos is better than Coquelin, Yennaris or Meade at wing back. Maybe 5 years ago, but no way now.

I don't mind about Gnabry - like Rio he is quite big for his age but he's not ready yet, I mean he's only 17, it was a nice idea but no. But Tommy E on the other hand - he is exceptional. In terms of potential, we could be looking at a blend of Rosicky, Fabregas and Scholes, such is his movement, dribbling ability, eye for goal and range of passing. You don't score the goals he scores by accident - the guy is a natural. He has been here for a year, had one first team appearance, was EXCELLENT, and he is now 20 years old. Which other club in the league would sit on that talent? I am not saying he will reach those players' heights but it is possible. He wipes the floor with Cleverly at that age.

As for Meade, if he wasn't injured I would put money on him being overlooked.

Metal Gooner

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05 Feb 2013 23:55:46
just going to say bet you any money arsenal match fixed why any little bit of money will attract our owners!

london gunner

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Slightly ironic comment willing to bet money on match fixing. just a thought. I don't think Arsenal were involved.

Kermit79

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Well you guys think that but if arsenal are going to be accused also I will not be surprised.

london gunner

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05 Feb 2013 20:59:36
Ive noticed that malaga gooner hasn't been on here for a while. Has he giving up chatting c**p pn here now or maybe he's annoyed that none of his transfer roumers came tru or maybe because arsenal signed a player from his back yard in malaga itself

Do any of the edd's know how long till our stadium is paid of please and is henry pushing uzmanov to try and take over the club?
Many thanks {Ed001's Note - I am not entirely sure, I would suggest having a look at Swiss Rambles page (it is on blogspot) and is an excellent and comprehensive blog regarding finances. I fully recommend contacting him, he is usually very helpful on questions of finance, which I am not as conversant in, being perfectly honest.}

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Henry is not pushing Usmanov. The paper mistranslated Usmanov's words and then apologizi. He said that if he buy the club he will get only the best players like Henry.

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Thank you very. much for answering that for me. Keep up the grat work. Dannythegooner {Ed001's Note - I am sorry I couldn't help more myself.}

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Oh ok I think it's by time silent stan is gone as I can't really see what he's doing with our beloved team. though I don't want us to go they way of citeh or the chavs it would be nice every now and again to go and spend 20 or 30 mill on a player but on the other hande I don't know how much this is down to arsen aswell. He's shown what can happen go out spend money i. e pod santi and giroud its worth it. Instead of getting cheaper players on the market that start ok and the fade away

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Its ok thanks ED001'S for ya time

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