Arsenal Banter Archive October 06 2014

06 Oct 2014 20:35:54
A lot of people hating on Wenger again. I'm not saying he is without flaws or that I agreed with our team/tactics against Chelsea because I don't, but he is still an amazing manager. People are talking about him ruining Ozil and nonsense like that, but to be fair we wouldn't have even signed players like Ozil or Sanchez without Wenger. Yes, he needs to play ozil at no. 10 and drop him for the big games where we need 11 players, but hopefully walcotts returns will ensure that. If Diaby can get a run of games without breaking, I think we can be fantastic. Season isn't over yet, let's not turn into Spurs and hate on every player/manager we get!

Lemon there's a massive difference between hating and not trusting anymore mate, and Diarby a run of games? Surely you don't really believe this post yourself.
I get the loyalty thing but where's the reason to think its ever going to be different under Arsene?
We had no money
If it wasn't for injuries
Then there were no players available
Arsene needs help like big Sam at West Ham to bridge the gap between the dinosaur and digital ages

06 Oct 2014 21:52:20
He's seems these days to be an amazing sporting director. not so much on the manager front anymore

Sorry mate but I disagree.
First thing why do people say if it wasn't for Wenger we wouldn't have signed x, y or z. Let's say if Wenger retires tomorow, who do you think will replace him Hughes, Pardew, Pulis etc. I really fail to understand those claims. Yes he maybe has some pulling power, but let's not kid ourselves it's all about the money.
Personally I think there won't be a lot of depressed gooners when Wenger retires.

Gooner mkd I agree, I think of all the players we have missed because of wengers stubbornness. Can people not see the mistakes game after game and how open we are season after season.

Pulling power? If you were a player who had no particular link to a top PL team but all wanted you and the money on offer was much of a muchness why chose Arsene to be your manger?
Poor recent record
4th place most likely finishing position
Record in big games abysmal
Bizarre tactics
Look what's happened to Ozil under Arsene
Very likely to be out injured quite a bit as most of our players are

Pulling power, where's the pulling power there?

G62 that is correct. But I think he is still a manager who earned respect in football that gives him the edge over some other managers. Let's say would you play for Rodgers or Wenger? :)
But still with the money involved in football that has almost zero influence in players decisions. With Arsenal it's always the same, feels like the longest deja vu ever.

Beginning of summer tw
-high hopes for players, winning the league blah blah.
Mid summer tw
-key positions not sorted small tensions starting to arise.
End summer tw
-Key position are still lacking the necessary quality, we get some free players, buy some players for positions that are not the priority, wait till 12 pm go to bed disapointed thinking "Why you stupid Wenger, why didn't you buy x, y, z and sort this mess out".
It's like we are stuck in an endless loop.

Fact - Players that otherwise would not come to Arsenal - actually do because of Wenger. Long after the supporters have thrown former players under the bus, he still supports them and they still have fond feelings for Wenger.

Like the comment about sporting director - he and Klopp would make a great tandem.

Well Red that maybe true but if I was a young DM who was staring in let's say the Southampton team and was being chased by the PL big teams the thing that would worry me about joining Arsenal would be Arsene and would I have to do my time on the wing before I got to play in the position that made me such a hot property in the first place?
MKD I totally agree Arsene or BR Wenger is still the better chioce no question on that for now but I think its next season we are going to have big problems when utd have had two more windows, Liverpool will be back on track with or without Rogers plus I expect Martinez to have very close to the Everton he really wants by then. If we don't do what has desperately needed doing for ages soon we're going to be looking up at the 4th place trothy with envy and who knows for how long!
Something has to change somewhere before its to late

I do not think the pulling power lies with the coach to be honest. This is a myth. It is the club that holds the pulling power. Let's say hypothetically Wenger ends up coaching Burnley next season, do you think he would be able to convince Aexis Sanchez, Mesuit Ozil and Matthew Debuchy to join him there? I don't think so. Arsenal is a big club. And as long as we are doing well in the league, we have every chance of attracting high profile players regardless of who the coach is. because truth be told, no way Arsenal will ever be managed by a mickey mouse coach and the players know that

06 Oct 2014 18:54:58
PL 17
W 1
D 2
L 14
Pts 4 from possible 51
Scored 17
Conceded 46
Arsene's not stupid, stubborn undoubtedly but not stupid.
Looking at these stats even he must doubt himself deep down and the players? Well they can't and probably have too much respect to admit it but of course they doub there own teams ability too

I also think its ingrained in the club at the moment and that's why change is needed. Fresh start fresh ideas and rid the negatives that are building.

Chelsea sees us as 6 points every season

{Ed025's Note - at the moment they see everyone as 6 points MKD, they are on fire..

06 Oct 2014 14:48:05
Serious questions!
Who was the last top 4 finishing side we took 4 or more points from in a season and when?
Who were the last big European team we eliminated from the champions league and when?
I don't know the answers does anyone else?

I would guess the first answer would be the invincibles. The second would be up for debate. Dortmund, when they were just emerging, but I struggle to remember. It seems every time we come to a big game we fail. I suppose that's what you are saying too.

Can it really be that long ago Steve, the invincibles?
If so its worse than I thought, 10 years is shocking if it's right mate

You've got me there G', I can't remember us knocking out a big team in the champions league for a while now. Not cool

06 Oct 2014 19:46:10
Pretty sure it was Chelsea in the 2011/12 season when we thumped them 5-3 at their place.

2005/6 season we beat Liverpool home and away and they finished 4th that year :-)

CIG than year chavs finished 6th mate but 06/07 we beat man u home and away

Whatever you say whatever you think, whichever way you look at it its a crap record, not one that should be associated with a big club.

06 Oct 2014 13:16:46
G62
Another question?
Ok, would you swap Wenger for Dags? ;-)

Ulster
I am going to ask that on our page and give you the collective opinion

Oh yes! And could have dawn French as his lovely assistant manager.
Thats a no contest Reet mate, French and Dagala v Wenger and Bould.
Oh yes yes yes

06 Oct 2014 19:49:28
I'd love Balotelli Reet.

I'd say he's the price of half a Sanogo atm :P

06 Oct 2014 13:21:05
Nobody is better at Anti-Arsenal tactics than Mourinho.

Big Sam started writing the book, Mourinho perfected the strategy and later Tony Pulis showed you don't need huge resources to utilise it.

When we play a team that fails to buy into this stratagem and thinks to beat us at our game. With the exception of Barcalona and a few of the worlds biggest, we usually prevail.

What Wenger needs to come up with is a counter measure for anyone who adopts this strategy when facing us. If he doesn't, we will face this more and more often as other teams catch on.

When opposition compact and form their phalanx like defensive wall at the edge of their box, we have jack, Ozil and Santi in front of them passing side to side looking for a gap that never comes. This is usually the point Jack gets frustrated, try's to dribble his way though. Loses the ball and gets dumped on his behind.

Bang counter attack one nil down.

Getting the ball through to the front men before the defence get their chance to form up never seems to happen so failing that, we need players to get in among them on their shoulder. Not in front of them where they can be seen and easily dealt with without having to break rank. Diaby would be fantastic to have back in this situation. He has both the strength and the skill with his feet to wrench open a hole. Big Olly G is a powerful asset in the same situation as was evident in Wilshires goal against Norwich last season.

Also

If we were more efficient at Set pieces, corners in particular and shooting from range this tactic would prove less effective. It's simple to take the ball down the wing in that scenario and play it off a defender for a corner. I truly believe teams are unconcerned conceding corners against us. Our only real aerial threat (until Giroud gets back) comes from Mert and Kos and having them 2 forward and out of position is exactly what the opposition wants when they break against us.

Be it better delivery, more height in the team or some new found wiley trick for scoring from corners I don't know. What I do know is if we started to score from these situations, opposition would have to think twice about letting us have them. It could give us the ability to go one up rather than one down which happens all to often, particularly against the big sides. Teams would have to think about more than stifling us and come out and play right into our hands.

There is a lot of football still to be played and we have valuable players to come back. I reckon if Chelsea start buying into their own hype, they will set themselves up for a fall. Remember how our own form faltered after the invincible run came to an end? The situation as it stands is not good but most of the ingredients are there to form the right recipe. In a months time we will be up around were we are expected. All we can do is chase them and hope.

Bit of a long one, so if you took the time to read it I appreciate it, thanks.

COYG

07 Oct 2014 08:55:06
Brilliant post Ulster, I hope that will be exactly what Wenger does in our next window, tall athletic players.

06 Oct 2014 11:59:12
We have 3 years of this guys Wenger signed a new contract and will see it out - I think he will graciously take a backroom roll and Steve Bould will take over.

I read an article - it could be completely off the chart but it was around Wenger not giving Steve Bould the chance to coach the defensive side of the team. Maybe that is what is lacking. Maybe it is not.

I would prefer a proven manager, another reason why perhaps Wenger signed a 3 year deal - it gives his time an end date and gives the club the chance to advertise a managerial position is coming up.

In the meantime, I hope Wenger is looking at creating a legacy. He has started with some good signings in the summer. Now I am really hoping he keeps this up - builds a great team and leaves with his head held high.

What are your thoughts guys? What needs to change - We have Wenger for 3 years, we all know this. What can change to make it bearable?

I wouldn't suggest Wenger is guaranteed to stay for 3 years. Despite his legacy any manager is only as good as the results. I simply cannot see him at the club for 3 years.

My hope is he walks at the end of this season and we get Klopp, this would be a dream come true!

06 Oct 2014 10:54:38
Personally I think we have to copy what West Ham did with big Sam but in reverse and bring in a coach who will make us more solid in the middle and give us the plan B we desperately need in big games
The players who left us for city utd in recent years went because of big wages yes but also they wanted big prizes and they all got them too.
In the next 3 years will Theo Ox Ramsey Sanchez Welbeck have come to the same conclusion?
Kos is 30 now will he be tempted next summer? Ozil is already gone imo its either January or the summer he can't just stay with us and go from the worlds King of assists he was when he arrived to worlds biggest flop.
I don't want Arsene sacked but we have to do something as in 3 years time we could well be looking at being in the uafa cup and pleased to be there.
Compromise is key to our future and Arsene will either have to accept it or say tata

Time for George Graham to return:)

I'd rather go for someone younger who can take us forward not back and eventually replace Arsene completely

06 Oct 2014 09:51:38
Well said DG, I think others are finally getting the picture. AW has been brilliant for us, but, as I've said many times before, he HAS been. We only play one way and never have plan B. Even that internationally respected world class and fair-play ambassador Joey Barton is correct in saying every team knows how to snuff us out and AW has yet again failed to bring in those players we desperately needed. I cannot accept we tried to get the players in but we failed. Why? We have the money but to recruit the right players YOU HAVE TO PAY THE RATE!!
Other teams do it so why not us? Obviously we cannot break the bank but if AW goes for a player he knows what the cost will be yet we never get them because his strict financial restraints mean we will always lose out. We do not have a bottomless pit of money but if SK IS for Arsenal then he should MAKE AW spend to ensure success and perhaps a new negotiator. I do feel a change is needed, and better players, this is not a knee-jerk reaction but a frequently aired view, I cannot understand the protect AW at all costs. We were out played and out fought yet again because we cannot adapt. Maureen is NOT a genius, he simply adapts his team to counter his opponents and it means success.Another traumatic season beckons.

Peter I think only those who support Arsene and also like Arsenal can justify continuing as we have been for so long now.
I read an article 3 or 4 years ago saying we'd swapped big physical MF players like Vieira Petit and Gilberto for small tipy tap players and it wasn't working, it made sense then as has continued to be proven right season after season since.
Breaking the bank isn't an option but does it need to be to improve us?
Alex Song was available this summer and although he ain't Paul Pogba he's better than Artea and Flamini rolled into one.
Other teams don't get so easily beaten at city chavs etc infact Swansea and Leicester gave chavs a real run for their money they didn't have Pogba Ranaldo or Messi but they had a game plan that players on far lower wages than ours carried out with credit to their club.
When looking for answers all roads lead to Arsene its his problem that we sadly have to share

06 Oct 2014 11:10:31
Mourinho adapts his teams to win. And succeeds.

Tactical genius for me! Wenger could do with taking a few ways of approaching out of his books.

No doubt Wenger has been brilliant for us (exactly how you said), but if he can't adapt his tactics to the modern era then we need to think of a way to go about it - I really don't want him to leave the club but after Dortmund and now this it feels as if a change somewhere is needed!

Shame we are now targeting 4th again on here, 3rd is still achievable. Ha!

Gunner 62 your spot on song was better than nothing for sure. he would start for us

06 Oct 2014 07:54:41
The weekend showed us once again how Wenger just gets out thought and the players get out fought against the Top teams.

I just don't think you can play Jack, santi and Ozil in the same team, we were not strong enough in all departmentsm midfield Cesc bossed it.

The 2 goals were shocking defending, for the 1st Flamini did not get tight enough to Hazard and allowed him start his mazy run, I blame Kos for the 2nd goal, I know cesc had space to deliver the 40 yard pass but Costa was given the space and time to chest the ball down, Kos should have followed his man but got caught ball watching and lost him.

We have big problems this season and 4th place now I feel will be a big fight.

Under the current regime 4th place and Champions League revenue will be all we are aiming for. From top down the attitude and ambition of our club needs to change.

06 Oct 2014 10:16:30
It's always a big fight for us!

Flamini was our best player in midfield along with Jack.W - unfortunately that says a lot for Flamini as a player. Great spirit and will give his all but doesn't have the qualities for that position any more.

Onwards and upwards.

Rob afc I agree I think Jack was the pnly one who tried to get at them yesterday, Sanchez was too busy moaning at the close attention he got from Ivanovic, Ozil well he was lost out there Santi also was off key.

Flamini at one stage I remember was our furthest player forward trying to get the team to push up and press, now he is the holding midielder, he was screaming at players to close and press, he was right but our midfield is not set up to close and tackle.