Arsenal Rumours Archive November 13 2012

13 Nov 2012 16:53:19
Lwi,do you know wenger was of the ones who did not want to sell to ushmanov?

champagne charlie

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Yes i do, and I think it is because he knew that if he had to fail with Usmanov's money he would be out the job.

Rather than take the risk and work under the pressure splashing millions would put you in, Wenger opted to take the safer route knowing he would be the one entrusted with steering the ship home. With Usmanov's money, there would be no excuses for him not to achieve major and pro longed success.

Kroenke on the other hand is cut from the same cloth as the one's in charge and United and the pair who owned Liverpool. These people have little to no in our football matters, just profits and loans. Ask yourself why Kroenke's teams don't win their respective titles. Teams like the Nuggets, Rapids and Rams will always float to a certain level and if there is a Carmelo Anthony who can keep them at that certain level and them be moved on before his wage becomes too hot to handle...so be it, because Stan could not care less.

The thing is Charlie, as much as you don't like Wenger he was there when we were achieving. And he shares a love for this club with people like you and me, when it comes to managers at the top end that is almost impossible to find. Would you rather we had a manager who would use us as a stepping stone/a way of improving his CV like Mark Hughes did with Fulham or would you prefer somone who is not ready yet, whom we could use as a stop gap like Man City did with Mark Hughes?

It seems like you want Wenger out more than you want him to succeed. Do you think if Wenger was sacked tomorrow we would suddenly win the trebble and Cesc, RVP, Song and Nasri will come back and Gazidis, Kroenke and the board will magically do a 180 and we'll be signing 35m players? NO mate. If anything, sacking Wenger would only send us even futher back. The only type of manager who would take the job at Arsenal under the same conditions, is a young, 'this is my first big job' type of yes man like Rogers at Liverpool. And they would get no where near the top four. Look what happened to Di Matteo in the premiere league last season. He finished 5th with a star studded chelsea all because who could spend nothing at the time. Fast forward to this season, he paid over 70 million for four attacking mid/wingers.

When we were winning tittles we had players who would bleed for this club, fans who would die for this club and a manager who understood all of this.

Why do you want to take away the last two from us, because you dislike the man who understands this club inside out and by that you dividing the fans who come match day (I include you in this) only hope the best for there team.

Lwi

There seems to be this ongoing thing on this page that I have experienced for the 2 years I've been posting, and that is that people can't seem to comprehend the concept of people wanting the board and Wenger out, not just one, and not just the other. I don't know why, but this seems to be a difficult concept.

If we sacked Wenger nothing would change on the financial front, but we would certainly have a good chance of bringing in a manager who would do not only better with the current players, who IMO should be top 3 no question. But the financial mess would continue. If we sacked the board and not Wenger, then we would see the same on-pitch failings we see now because Wenger can no longer pick a team or formation, or motivate players. So give him 100m or 10m he'll still play players out of position in horrible formations.

But, you get this board out, re-structure the finances, pay top players top wages, bring through decent youth and hang on to our best ones e.g. Ozyakup instead of giving them away, and then bring in a manager with modern tactical nous, and an eye for a good bargain and the balls to sign a top player when we need one, and this club would be back on track no question and would not need to spend outside of it's means because our wage budget, which currently sits only 12% lower than United's, would be properly apportioned to decent players, and we wouldn't have 25 players on loan either.

We need a new board, and new manager, for a new era that is currently leaving us behind while teams like Liverpool get the point and start rebuilding, and teams like Wigan and Swansea show us how to play damn good football, whilst teams like Man U, Chelsea, Bayern etc etc show us how to land decent commercial deals, have some sort of success, and comply with FFP, which I think we all know by now is NEVER going to ave this magical impact for Arsenal FC. Never.

As I keep saying, as you have correctly mentioned Lwi, we need to get Stan out asap. I cannot see how he was ever allowed to take over this club. What a joke.

He needs to go first, take the spin doctor budget-master Gazidis with him, then gut the rest and rebuild this club.

Wenger speaks of a break away league, missing the point that if there was one, we should be in it. He would rather we top the baggage left behind than be part of the best. He, and the board, need to get with the times, and we don't need to do a Chelsea or City to do this.

Metal Gooner

Lwi i want to start of by saying well done on a truly outstanding post.
The anger i vent at arsene is nothing personal and if you read any of my posts i have never been abusive towards him.
my problem with him is the way he has become a smug know it all and he sounds more like an arsenal board member rather than a manager.
his comments since we last won something makes out the average arsenal supporter is a fool, i think a bit of HILL-WOOD has rubbed of him.did you hear his comment about BERBA-SNOT after the game on saturday it made me cringe.i posted after the game i wonder was he offered him as part of the deal and i bet he was.
i am just as much as a footballing man as the next person on here and just because i do not post formation and players i want in does not give me any less or any more the wise way to play but his decisions over the last 4-5 years are just biszare?
its as if he is saying to every 1 "i run the club if you dont like it f*** off,look at the way we started the season,it was obvious to every 1 that BOULDY was having an influence and i am 100% sure this annoyed him and he changed the formation and the way we played,and the rest is history.
your going on about wenger as if hes a messiah, the man was not put on this earth to be arsenals savior,he is a pawn in the history of the club and eventually a move will come along and he will be taken of the board and i believe its the right time to make that move.
every 1 keeps going on about a sugar daddy coming in and i do not want this to happen,i want us to live with in our means but we have huge cash reserves and he refuses to spend because it goes against every thing he believes in.
every 1 was going on about santos and SHIRTGATE but no 1 mentioned how he was shaking RVP hand when they were walking of the pitch at half time. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH THAT HURT ME WHEN WE WERE GETTING HAMMERED IN THAT GAME,HE SHOULD OF BEEN RUNNING DOWN THE TUNNEL TO GET TO THE DRESSING ROOM TO SOUGHT THINGS OUT.
he just does not do it for me any more and i am not the only one,change is not a bad thing and i think the arsenal supporter has given him enough time to sort things out.
does this make me a bad supporter?

champagne charlie {Ed025's Note - no charlie, it does not...slightly misguided in my opinion, but hey..your passion makes up for that mate..

So Lwi,

we just accept things as they are and resign to not winning anythign for the next forseeable future? you can paint it anyway you want but we are not winning anything with Wenger in the next 10 years. If it is stan who is at fault then Wenger should hit out and make some noise about it.

Ash

Edo25 i sent a post earlier today,i was wondering could you stick it up for me please.

i bet it hurt to give me half a compliment:)))
champagne charlie {Ed025's Note - i cant find it chaz...not been on long mate, it did not hurt at all by the way, passion is a wonderful thing, but for me its time all the gooners pulled in the same direction, slagging off the manager and players will not really help..

Just to add Lwi when i asked you about ushmanov, it was a question and i was not being smart with you.

champagne charlie

13 Nov 2012 19:59:32
I see your point Metal and it is similar to what I think and what i was trying to tell Charlie. If somone with the passion for the club, ambition and money Usmanov has took over, then Wenger would not have any excuses.

Like you said, we actually need a complete re-structure from top to bottom, but that does not start at firing the manager. They will just replace him with another "yes man". Getting rid of Kroenke on the other hand would create that domino effect needed to "cleanse" the club.

Usmanov says he would have Wenger's job on a plate if he had gone trophyless for 6 seasons. Thats because he knows he would've given him a £200m war-chest to sign our targets and the wage bill to keep our best.

What does Silent Stan have to say?

Lwi

Lads,would you sacrifice 1 bad season where we do not qualify for the cl and hope there would be huge all out revolt?

do you think this what ushmanov is hoping for,he must have a plan of action?

champagne charlie

13 Nov 2012 20:45:18
Oh man, during a proper effort at debating things, there is always that one guy.

Thats you Ash. No where do i say we should just sit there and do nothing while we win nonthing. Try reading what i said first rather than just sifting through. What im saying is that there is a way of doing these things, not just going through managers. Do you think Blackburn Rovers' problems are solved now that Steve Kean is gone? No.
There is a way to do these things when you want them done properly, whether its via a sugar daddy or the German way.

And yes Charlie i knew you were not being condescending.

Lwi

We are the same page generally but I disagree about the manager. Let me just give an example, and I'm not saying 'sign him up', but let's say this summer, Martinez had been in charge. He would arguably have chosen a formation, stuck with it, sold whoever we had to sell e.g. RVP and Song because the board wanted it to happen - but he would have bought players that suit the formation he chooses. Podolski is a brilliant player but his best position is the Rooney position. Giroud is a top man who needs another striker to link up with. Theo should be a striker too in the Defoe mould. Wenger doesn't see this. Martinez would buy a winger because we need a winger. He wouldn't play Ramsey at RW. It's just one daft thing after another with AW and that's why I say that regardless of finances, our on-field displays would be far greater, there's no way a hungry manager would turn out a team that played against QPR or Man U, never. If Martinez and Rogers can get their teams playing the way they do against United for example, there's no way they'd struggle to do that with ours.

With Gibbs injured, imagine this;

...............GK.............
Jenk....Mert..Verm....Coq
............Arteta...........
....Santi....Pod....Ox....
..............Giroud.........

Rotations and in-game subs:
Theo/Rosicky for Santi
Jack for Pod
Santos/Gerv for Ox
Kone/NewST/Gerv for Giroud

The point is a young hungry manager puts a winger-esque player as a wing back or winger, not a DM like Coquelin. He doesn't play a guy who has lost it and can't beat a player, who's nothing more than an average CM, where someone like Santi and Rosicky and Theo have proven time and time again that they're good. Wenger does because he thinks he's clever, and then millions of fans hold their heads in their hands and Wenger gets crucified every weak on MOTD by people who actually do know what they're talking about, sad to say!

Metal Gooner

^^^Jack doesnt even need to come on for Pod...he would fill in that gap (beside Arteta) you left in your 10 man team

And metal wanted to have a go at being manager!

only joking mate.

champagne charlie

For me now arsen is a yes man to stan and ivan, . and it hates me to say this but our club is on a decline and lets face it we have for a while. something isnt wright at the club and would arsen be at only other clubs after 8 years with out not wining any sort of a trophey, we carry on selling our best players season after season and we are not replacing em with the same quality, people are wright if uzmanov took over then arsen wouldnt have any excuses of not to spend and something has to happen soon

There is a lot of rubbish in these posts - wenger would have had no influence in who is on the board - all of this is down to Fizsman and his personal battle and dislike with David Dein and then selling out to Kroenke in order just to block Dein getting back into the club
Wenger's biggest mess-up is not treating the fans with respect and being a 'yes' man to the board - Wenger needs to grow some balls and make us fans aware of the little support the team has from the board
MB

I always do that with my formations, such a fool....but my point stands nonetheless.

Metal Gooner

MB I agree entirely with your thoughts on Wenger coming out and being honest with the fans. Funny how he's happy to take £6-7mil per year to win nothing and see us paying our money but he can't be honest with us or tell the club he'll walk...disgraceful.

Metal Gooner

Lwi, Your blinkered point of view when you say, if we sack AW we would regress, is why we are in this position. Look at CFC. They employed a novice manager who managed to galvanise a team in tatters, who'd just been hammered by AFC at home 3-5. Then went on to win Champions League.

Well said..........anyone caught abusing Wenger (and i include the 'you dont know what your doing' chant) should be shot. There are hundreds of top clubs that would have given anything to have a class man and manager like him.

Lwi, you are just scared what would happen if Wenger is gone (we are not Rovers). I would rather have a period of uncertainity with Wenger gone than endure this frustration of having a team which will never win anything.

Ash