Arsenal Banter Archive December 14 2012

14 dec 2012 22:24:29
we have a captain when he needed to show some fight in a cup game against f***** "bradford" looked like he would rather be playing in madrid or barcelona or get his £150k a week at man city.

can people not see there is something wrong!

champagne charlie

Charlie, i agree there's a problem with Vermalen, and i certainly think he isn't the best choice for captain (even though when Van Persie left myself and most others wanted him as captain), over ghe past year he seems to me like he's lost some of his bulk, AND a bit of his pace.

I don't think there's any doubting TV5 is top defender, he does his job for us, plays at LB, which he hates, whenever we ask him and is usually quite solid.
However, this season his form has been in severe decline, too many mistakes, looks nervous and can look a bit flustered.

However, a lot of these problems can be attributed to being captain I think.
Arsene said he's struggling with the captaincy.
For me, when TV5 was vice captain, it meant he didn't need to take on the role of captain till needed, so he just concentrated on Marshalling the defence.
Now he's got a whole team to rally, he's struggling.

TV5 of last years form and PM4 of this years form would basically be impenetrable.

It's unfeasible to take away the captaincy now unless it's mutually decided, If he's just stripped of it, it'll shatter his confidence, but if he relinquishes it, then it's different, but it'd have to be handled well, like Wenger asking him in a 1 to 1 chat how he's doing, is he still feeling the pressure of captaincy, and taking it from there.

The captain we need though, is the man I wanted to be vice.

Jack Wilshere.

He's got the heart of a lion, the grace of a deer, the loyalty of a dog and the blood of a gunner.

I genuinely think we could be in 20th place, losing 4-0 and he'd STILL give 110%.
Which is more than can be said for a lot of our other players, even when we're playing well!
I love our players, including what was a worrying man-crush on Cazorla at one point (I'm over it now I think), but I don't always like them.

D

Jack Wilshire will prove his fitness and then in 18 months he will be gone. Barecelona or Real Madrid for him.

15 Dec 2012 03:32:07
On the night I thought all four defenders plus Wiltshire and young Francis showed 100 percent commitment....tv5 has maybe showed I different form this season but has always been comited....I think walking off without thanking the amazing 4500 loyal supporters was wrong ....to take that amount up there on a Tuesday night in freezing conditions plus fog on the roads,for a second rate cup is amazing .....I think Wenger playing Ramsey on the right and that person upfront is what I call unacceptable.....I think some of the team are slowly showing discontent....and as for this bloody defensive where we don't mark man for man is a joke.....Adams,Bould,Dixon and winterburn or keown always marked man for man...if there is any truth regarding a disagreement between Wenger and Bould...then this might be what it's over....the resin Pat rice was with Wenger for so long,is because he never challenged him....I remember before Wenger came along and how poor our football was under the later part of Graham's reign....worse football I've ever seen...the game against QPR when Jenson scored his first goal and we lost 3-1.....it was terrible.....we've come a long way since....but for me Wenger has become very stubborn and the edge we had in the French transfer market is now gone....even Newcastles recent purchases have been better from France than ours....But with a board of directors and a owner who only care about the balance sheet.....Wenger is perfect for them ..remember Martin Oneil spent 100m at Villa...where did it get them....so it suits both Wenger and the board to hide behind their silence...they get blamed for not giving him money and him for not having money to spend.....we have money....plenty of it,but Wenger won't spend it....look at the panic buys at the end if last season....Park didn't play one full game and off he went .....also who is the person who decides Denison is worth 35k- 45k a week....or that Danish person 52k per week....Wenger....who decides we should spend 6.2m on a Brazilian left back who can't even defend.....Wenger....who decides to by the Russian captain who single handily pulls the Dutch team apart by playing in his central (number 10) role and puts him on the left expecting him to get back and cover the left back......Wenger.....He has ruined Arsharvin....sorry guys but I think the man is now stale.....his legacy is a great stadium and some of the best football played by some of the finest players to grace this great club.....But we can't all live on past glory....every dog has its day.....thanks Arsene....it's been some journey.....

I posted the same thing a couple of weeks back and was laughed at! what i pointed out was vermalen has changed since whilsire came back in the team as i think he takes a bit more controll; which i believe has effected vermalen in some way

He did score the equalizer lets not forget

14 Dec 2012 20:49:12
champagne charlie needs to pull his head out of his ear that everything stops a transfer when we get to the wages!
mata and hazard should have been ours... nasri, song and rvp should still be ours!
do you that wenger really wanted to sell his top preformers?
we have bored members that don't belong there...

N5 Gunner

Bored ? or Board ?

We have money

its there in black and white

we could of given rvp his wages that what top players get.

world class players get paid top money.we had £70 mill in the bank and could afford to offer him more than £130k a week.we did not even show any intent to buy any replacement.
i wont talk about song leaving and putting all his faith in diaby.

this is all arsene wengers decision.

as i said 8 years and no sign of improvement.

champagne charlie

15 Dec 2012 00:18:58
Not sure why CC gets so many disagrees he's speaking the truth

14 Dec 2012 19:13:19
Moussa Sissoko
Mbwia
Capoue
Mvilla

These are the type of signings we need to be making, BIG, STRONG, POWERFUL players, we seem to be getting knocked about a bit in the middle of the park, and with the smaller more technical players running the show there is only Arteta left to fight, and to be fair to him, its a battle hes not going to win. With one or two of these players i reckon it would transform the whole dynamic of the team, that solid cm who can break down attacks, protect the back four, do the simple things well, we dont need another Alex Song, we got other players to play the hollywood balls, just someone to sit in front of the back four.

N. Wales Gunner

Agreed mate.

I've been saying for ages (as I think most gooners have) that we lack that bully boy in midfield.

But I think it has to go further than a big powerful player, we need a player who's a bit of a d*ck, someone who's not afraid to get a bit of a telling off, accumulate a few yellows.
A player who scares opposition midfielders, never gives anyone any time or space.

The closest thing we had to that recently was Frimpong, and he's out in loan now!

Unfourtunatley, most DM's have a degree of technical play in there game now, there's no real gilberto players out there, someone who isn't a fancy dribble or flicks player, someone who can't pick out a 30 yard pass to feet.

We've got Santi/Jack/Mikel for that!

I think Medel from Sevilla, M'villa, or at a long shot Khedira.

D

Im NOT saying sign him, but a Joey Barton type player (barring the circus that follows him) like you say, someone to throw a load of tackles in, make the opposition know they are there and not going to get a minutes peace

N. Wales Gunner

14 Dec 2012 19:04:19
A few thoughts as crazy season draws closer. Theo is finally maturing and becoming the player his potential showed him to be. So he will leave us and i dont blame him one bit if Wenger prefers Gervinho up front to Theo then i would go aswell. It is a joke how our club is run yes we dont over spend but letting players contracts run down and pissing off the true game changing players we have is unbelievable. I trust Wenger i do i think he has been a revelation at our club but his time is past and we need ideas and new drive forward. Unfortunately he is now held down with this not winning we are known as the club that hasnt won in 8 years. We need new personnel to bring about a new outlook. I dont think Gazidiz is the problem i truly dont i think he is running the commercial side extremely well and he is the one that comes to face up to the fans at the functions. Stan must go, Board must go, Wenger must be asked to step down. In place bring in Usmanov, a new board and a new manager. All good managers play good football so it wont hurt our image as a footballing team.

Paul

Gervinho is a joke african nations cup can't come soon enough. Wenger has lost is ability to spot talent either that or he has to buy second rate talent.

14 Dec 2012 14:51:12
Interesting to see Vertonghen come out and say he was Being asked by arsenal to come and play as a holding midfielder (a song replica, cb come DM)
Which was before we sold song and actually at the same time Wenger was saying he hoped song would stay (probably when he was already sold)

Atleast the interest suggests we are still looking for a DM, I just hope it's a guy who specialises in it , rather than a guy who plays 2-3 positions and not excelling at any of them (see Vertonghen)

Norway gunner

14 Dec 2012 13:28:08
Sorry to say but I think huntelaar is rubbish. With the cash we got we can do much better. Our problem is instead of 2 good players with 50mil, well buy 5 average players. Btw hope the strootman rumours are true. An excellent all round midfielder who's still got plenty to show for.

Huntelaar isn't rubbish but you are right in that we should be aiming a little higher, I think its pathetic were only in for him because he is cheap, and the fact is at 29 years of age how long has he got left? The pace of the epl takes 6 months alone to get used to
AG

Looks like Wenger's days are numbered.Just seen his latest interview.Deshevelled & aged 10 years overnight with bloodshot eyes.Fergie sees off another
Mufc 19

Huntellar ticks the boxes. good player. Decent price. plays for a top 6 club. Would be coming to a top 6 club. CL experience. good stats (Wenger makes transfers based on stats, the same way he analyses our solely on stats)

would be silly to turn our noses up to the hunter when we have chamack and gervinho in our squad. No ?

Unfourtunatley, AG summed up the issue for me in one word.

Pace.


The leagues Huntelaar succeeded in, Erivdisie (excuse my spelling) and the bundesliga, aren't the quickest or most physical leagues (bundesliga has it's moments admittedly)

I think he's a fantastic forward, but i see him struggling against quicker centrebacks like Kompany, Agger, lescott, luiz and the like.

If he came on a free or for less than £5m, it's worth the gamble, but anymore is too risky.


D

It was all going well until you used lescott and quick in the same sentence!

Mufc19:

"Wenger has aged 10 years overnight with bloodshot eyes"

"Fergie sees off another"

Is this Alex "Brad Pitt" Ferguson you're talking about?!

Paul

14 Dec 2012 12:28:25
Fickle fans and boo boys...
Please get behind the manager and players, help lift their heads and turn things around...
But continue to point the arrows at the board because a big change is coming!!

Suffolk R&W

I tend to agree. Those who are already asking for the manager's head should ask themselves one question - who is out that that is a. a better manager than Arsene Wenger and b. who would realistically come to Arsenal. I think Arsene is still one of the best managers around. the tam, for reasons unknown, are having a huge confidence crisis and need support. I too would save my questions for the board...

How dare you call me and others fickle fans!

i have supported arsenal for over 40 years and have put up with a experiment that has failed for 8 years

you come on here shouting support for a man that thinks he is mr arsenal.

you may be happy with performances against teams like bradford,swansea,fulham,stoke,sunderland,norwich,montpellier and getting beaten by the greek champions.

i hope we loose against reading.
i want to see wenger on ss1 come monday night explain his latest f*** up.

1 word for you suffolk and any 1 else that supports this shambles,"deluded"!

wenger should of been sacked 5 years ago.

suffolk lets get 1 thing straight,wenger is an employee of arsenal and i will be around a lot longer than him supporting the club once hes gone!
will you??

champagne charlie

How can the board say yes we could go and buy a player like mata (£23.5 million) or hazard (£32 million) but expect to pay them 50-70 million a week... bunch of jokers only interested on their own wage/bonus and not continued success for the club! {Ed002's Note - Chelsea do not pay quite that much per week.}

Agree with ed002, that is a lot of money per week!

Charlie, although we see your passion please do not wish for us to lose any game - ever.

Did I mention any names Charlie?
But if you think it's aimed at you that a problem you need to deal with cos this sites not about you it's about the arsenal!
To answer you last question yes I will always support the club through thick and thin, good and bad...
I am in tiled to my own opinion and many fan agree that the board need to wake up to the fact that if we want to compete with man u, man c and Chelsea on the pitch we need to stop selling are best to them, also compete financial with them for players that they are after...

Suffolk R&W

Sorry i have millions on the brain... thousands is what i ment!

How can any 1 call themself a fan and in the next breath want us to lose... should be ashamed of yourself!
pop down the road to N17 and watch spuds where you belong!

Yes it was directed at me and any supporter on here that wants change.

people like you suffolk have constantly thrown the word "fickle" at us and shown no respect.

we have a right as supporters to want better from our club.
they have constantly gone backwards in 8 years.

i think the new word for "fickle should be "hero"

we need loads of hero's because i do not see many at the club at the moment!!

champagne charlie

Charlie between 1971 and 1989 we never won the league. 18 years. We're you this p?!,sed back then?

Charlie, I appreciate your comments but answer only one question?

Who will do a better job with the resources the manager is provided by the board and in return ensure that the financial viability of the club is maintained?

Ill wait for your answer, and remember the club does not consider the performance on the pitch as its main consideration, independent financial viability is, so with that name one manager who could do what Arsene does?

All the best Charlie,

Gunners4Life, In AW we trust!

We would all like to see a change but there is no point bringing in a new manager with the same old farts on the bored, offering very limmited funds... Fact!
what top manager would want to join us at the moment?

Gunner4life i have said loads of times wenger is part of the board.

are you telling me the club has no more resources than what has been given so far?

look at the arsenal supporters trust report from our latest figures on may 31st.
we had a projected £70 mill to spend before we did any business in the summer
this was all ways my point.we do not have a manager we have a board member running the team.

if we loose on monday and arsene is not sacked you will see how much power he has at the club.

no big club in the world would go 8 years with out a real shout at trophy's.

regards my good friend!


champagne charlie

Very much in agreement with suffolkR&W!
cc is so blinkered to the press reports and not to the facts, the bored block transfer funds on wages.
Why else did we lose nasri, rvp and song, not to mention cole years back!
Very much fickle in my opinion!

Hero, what planet are you on charlie...
what regament were you in?
did you fight for queen and country?
how many lives have you saved?

no the best word to describe a not so loyal and ficle fan!

RealGunner72

I apologise for using the word hero it was just a word that came of the top my head.

champagne charlie

14 Dec 2012 11:12:52
Banter again please eds. Thanks

Metal and Charlie,

I didn't put this on my last post as it was getting so long and in a perfect world we shouldn't have to voice concerns about the board, they should be their doing it for a club they love and care about.

You're right about Kroenke he doesn't give a toss, or even know the proper use of the word Football, but when and if is Usmanov going to put up the something in excess of £650 million of his £18.3 billion to buy him out, would he bring back Dein who has been rumoured to be going to Liverpool and what if he wanted to keep Arsene, would he be the same inept manager we wanted shot of but because Usmanov would make him buy big would he suddenly be the great Arsene of old because he simply didn't have to think or do anything other than football.

I read Arsenal shares have a mid-price (whatever that is) of £16,250 each making Arsenal worth £1000 million or £1 billion. So as I put, maths says kroenke has about £650 million worth. I don't know what he paid for them but he will want to make a handsome profit no doubt, so how much does that mean that Usmanov would have to pay above the £650 million figure.

Further Usmanov says he would carry out a rights issue to build a war chest, a rights issue as I understand it is selling more shares but the company (Arsenal) remain valued at £1 billion, thus his shares, at least £650 million worth actually become worth less. I'm not sure as a businessman that that makes any sense, unless of course you're so minted you don't care and to boot you love the Arsenal, which by all accounts he says he does and I guess if we win more our value goes up.

So my question is what is he waiting for because the sooner we get rid of that clown Kroenke and his two retched little sidekicks the better. They have no place in or near our club. Anyone can sign commercial deals with the Arsenal brand but it takes a special person to do what Dein was doing. So on that front I'm with you both, it's just letting go of Arsene I still struggle with. Sentimental fool comes to mind.

Eds you may know more on what I've written, my figures may not be 100% but I think the meaning is there. Thanks.

Stoner {Ed002's Note - The point about the shares is that they are not available to be bought and sold so there value is simply nominal. Should someone wish to sell their shares they could charge a premium if the buyer wants them enough. You understanding of a Rights Issue is broadly correct although much would be determined by whether it is a public offering and, critically, whether or not the shares would be transferable.}

The thing is stoner,kroenke is not in england enough for him to take any notice of the fans or even be bothered to worry about it.

wenger is a supporter of kroenke and the way the club is run.

i am 99% sure ushmanov would not put up with wengers way, so i think he would be gone.

i think kroenke bought his shares for just under £10k a share.

the rumbles are starting to hit the press.kroenke will have to decide does he want to be dragged into the fracas on the pitch because this crop of players are not good enough and we have a manager that will not change.

in my opinion ushmanov is hoping the paying supporters are behind him fully and this is when i think he will make his move.
i am hoping this is the way it will go with an out cry.
1st-lady nina

2nd david dein

3rd- a final push from ushmanov

this is where the fans have to come in to it and decide what they want.
if that means boycotts of games and merchandise so be it!

the club is not going forward and has not been for years.

champagne charlie

14 Dec 2012 12:49:52
Charlie, I know that Kroenke is in it for the money and nothing else or perhaps I should say that's what it appears and I'm guessing the chance of him losing money as in Arsenal going right down the pan or Usmanov coming up with the money is the only way we're going to get rid of him.

Also I was under the impression that Dein and Arsene were still friends and that Usmanov had only ever praised Arsene as opposed to he would get rid of him.

Also thanks Ed02 and at the risk of looking really thick is the transferable thing where it can be policy that yes if there is a rights issue you can buy shares but that you can only sell them back to the club, albeit for profit.

Stoner {Ed002's Note - Transferable means you could sell to me, to any of the posters here or to anyone else. Non-transferable means you can only sell them back to the club - at which point they would be more like bonds.}

They are friends.
but stoner you can be mates and not agree on something.
if wenger did not agree with the way the club was going why did he not give them an ultimatum?
why did wenger not walk when dein left?

wenger has a free hand since dein left.
why has all of darren deins players been removed from the club?

who at the club slaps wengers wrist?

he is running the show with no opposition from any 1.

what other top club would allow a manager go nearly 8 years with out a trophy?

its time every 1 woke up!

champagne charlie

14 Dec 2012 13:46:23
Thanks Ed002, that confirms it, I am thick!

Stoner

Charlie, have you considered the possibility that no one yells at Wenger because no one above him actually gives a flying rat's ass what he's doing?

there is no one here who is free of blame. the upper management, Wenger, the players or us fans.

take in a deep breath and look at things in a broader perspective rather than calling for some good ol' fashioned ancient Mayan-styled human sacrifice.

psychocyst.

14 dec 2012 11:00:23
david dein was asked to leave the club because he did not agree with the direction the club was going.

arsene wenger did agree and backed hill-wood,fiszman and now kroenke in what the board were doing and was part of the plan right back when the stadium was put in motion.

lady nina was pushed out like dein was.

as i said before the hill-woods have run the club for over 90 years and there was suppose to be a gentlemans agreement with any major shareholders that peter hill=wood would have the final say on who took the reigns at the club.
wenger agreed with hill-wood on kroenke

keith elderman dares to speak up and was pushed out.

so any 1 who thinks the dream ticket of dein,usmanov and wenger will happen,"dream on "

wenger is not a supporter of dein and usmanov and never will be.

its simple,if you want the club to start spending decent money on quality player then you better pray for a new manager.

the future could be bright if you support "red and white"holdings!

champagne charlie

David Dein left the club, because he wanted Kroenke IN the club. In that time PHW and the others didn't want him... But then they allowed him to be in the bord and after that to buy their shares. I think they did that, because they realised that is Kroenke vs usmanov time and they choosed Kroenke. Even Danny Fiszman deadwish was Usmanov never to be allowed to be in the board.
When Kroenke bought the club, we all expected that Dein will be back, but Kroenke choosed Ivan(he has very,very good CV). Then there were rumours that David Dein is working with Usmanov now, but the latest news I've read is that David Dein is not with Usmanov now...

Uzmanov, dein, pep and henry as his assistant!!

14 Dec 2012 10:25:03
My theory ...Change is always good. you need to adapt, or you need to have messi.

Wenger has run out of ideas, he will not spend this crazy 50 mill people go on about.

and if he finishes out of the top 4, i hope for our sake and his he walks away.

Go to Real Madrid, PSG, where managing money is not what you need to do...and just use the tactics to win games.

We need pep...the players seem to have lost faith in wenger...i believe we have a talented team besides gervinho...even ramsey is better.

gervinho has cost us many games, and i have no idea why he is still played. its not like he will morph into ronaldo.

why pep?

He took over barcelona, sold the world player of the year Ronaldinho, sold the second best striker in the world in eto, for the best ibrahimovic, felt it didnt work and sold him the next year and messi magic keeps happening on a daily basis.

He knows which players he wants and he wont think twice about selling them for a loss...its about the team not some individual because he believes in them...you have to be ruthless to win.

the phrase penny wise pound foolish comes to mind when i think of arsenals, wage and salary cap and our overall wage bill and our current standing in the league.

We need a manager...not a finance director, or a account manager, or a dictator...we need a manager as simple as.

Im a wenger fan...but i think he needs a change to up his legacy and we need a change to get back into making history..

Arsene has been at Arsenal for 16 years...he has won trophies for 8 years and not won trophies for 8 years...we can and do need to do better...


The difference between us and liverpool is we have the money and the infrastructure and even the commercial deals to be a powerhouse if we just put a squad to win a single trophy...thats how popular the arsenal brand is...but if they keep sucking...why would you buy their stuff? to be mocked? to re-live past glories?

I cant even deny the state of arsenal, if you do, your just delusional. I watch barcelona more, as they are the only team now who give me hope of beating utd, to the CPL title...

i stopped being a season ticket holder 3 years ago and its saved me alot of money...i will support the team from my couch...but i will not pay those crazy prices to see gervinho the ronaldinho wannabe who at his best is even worse than torres at his worst.

Lakerville

14 Dec 2012 09:27:50
How long now before others start tweeting about how they were "forced out" and that Stan is only there for the money?
This is starting to sound like a bad joke now.

Maybe we should just get them all out. From top to bottom. The crooked board know very well that Kroenke knows zilch about football let alone Arsenal.

14 Dec 2012 09:07:54
morning guy.
just a few points. for me jack needs to be made captain in the summer he is the only player who gives 100% and plays for the badge.
Ramsey is to be given a new contract !! WTF ? how does he deserve a new contract for more money ?
i really hope we keep hold of Theo and pay him the £100k he wants. he is our top scorer !!we cant afford to keep strengthening chelsea and man u . lots of people in the media and ex players have said how the club is moving back but wenger is still in charge.

Papey

Just because ramsey is signing a new contract does not mean he will get a pay rise

14 Dec 2012 08:32:48
Theo will sign New Contract only if we sign players of credibility. Which we must dont loose faith.

Someone like Wenger wont go out with a BANG !

Arsenal to sign three players and win champs league. PEP to take over in the summer.

Thinking aout this the other day, very true wenger will win the champs league and then he will resign with possibly pep coming in

14 Dec 2012 07:22:34
So when is stand the 69% owner man... actually going to do his job and come out as a leader

14 Dec 2012 06:42:00
Just about every time we are linked with a player, their club always slaps a massive price tag on them.
e.g. Bale at Spurs, Gotze at Dortmund, Hazard at Lille

Why can't we do that?

With Fabregas, we should've said

Okay Barca, you want him? No worries, 50 mil and he is yours.

We always get ****ed around with transfer fees.

If other clubs can do it with their star players, why can't we?

Nick.

Coz we buy them for pennies and when they are worth millions...like Anelka who came for 500k and was sold for 24 mill...i mean they just drool over money..

cesc was under a million, thierry cost 7 mill,

basically our record signing is Cazorla if the papers are to be believed...

so we buy cheap sell high...and when it doesnt work out, aka francis jeffers, gervinho, chamakh, squillachi...we just keep them as backups and pay their silly wages, only becaue no one else wanted them on those wages.

Lakerville

14 Dec 2012 03:51:54
Huge fan of the site.First post here. Cheers all gooners!

I do not know why the root cause of the problem is not being discussed. It is the board and its BS about not seeing arsenal as a business.Lady NBS tweeted than "satan" kroenke has no passion for arsenal. The decline of denver nuggets is clearly there to be seen and soon it may be the same for arsenal. I do not understand why David Dien was ousted by the very NBS back then and now she is complaining that the person whom she sold her shares to isnt passionate enough. On top of that we have ppl like Ivan the terrible.

In other clubs when a vital player wants to leave the board is the one which puts its foot down and decides. The same at arsenal and we can clearly see the results.

So please all gooners......hit them in their pockets......stop paying for the most overpriced tickets in Europe. Let us show them our strength by our absence.

CenterGooner