Arsenal Banter Archive July 05 2014

05 Jul 2014 22:47:55
Ok, another serious post by me, I bet you are all confused, lol.

What with the aftermath of, let's be honest, a disastrous World Cup, and the big clubs being continually linked, and indeed, signing more Foreign' players, are we still heading down the road of 'International disaster'?.

Arsenal haven't /wont sign any English players, nor day I say, Man City.

Liverpool, to be fair have signed Rickie Lambert and Adam Llalana and Manchester United have secured the services of Luke Shaw, but I'm certain their other signings will be of no use to the English National team.

Arsenal will sign Debuchy and were flirting with Serge Aurier, signings that will dent the progression of Carl Jenkinson.

Point being, whilst signing overseas players will strengthen our clubs, will they be signings that are to the detriment of our national team and indeed any chance of 'football coming home'?.

06 Jul 2014 00:09:21
English players are overpriced, no arsenal fan would be happy with the price Liverpool payed for llalana, or what united payed for shaw.
Most clubs have to be careful of what there spending, so when you can get a player less then half the price of an Englishman, clubs will continue to do so.

I think it's one or the other with debuchy and aurier, otherwise jenkinson will leave, he deserves a year to prove himself.

06 Jul 2014 00:49:55
To be honest English players are over rated and over priced. Sadly. 25m for a unproven cm. 30m for shaw. When you think of the players you can get abroad you can see why big clubs go there. Btw not saying all English players are over priced and over rated. Just a lot. On this subject tho. How on earth did we get ox and Walcott so cheap lol

Jenkinson
Gibbs
Ramsey
Wilshire
Ox
Walcott

We do have a few, which is more than most matey . would you really want Lambert? Or Shaw for that matter?

I don't believe in the reason behind the English team being so poor internationally as a result of too many international players being in the premier league.
You just have to look at squads like Belgium, brazil, Argentina, Columbia all teams that have progressed well in the world cup, and how many of their players play in their respective countries? more particularly their top players.
I think it all comes down to the coaching. And I experienced this myself a few years ago, where I went to a trial day where many premier league and championship coaches were present. it consisted of a number of training drills and then a few matches at the end. what I realised during these sessions was that none of the coaches had much if any interest in the smaller short build players, instead focused most of their attention to the larger stronger who technically and mentally weren't as good as most others. the training sessions were focused on sprinting, simple passing, basic movement up and down the wings, shooting with power/laces, only training regarding skill/technique was keepy ups.
until the coaching system looks to develop the more technical side of football, English players will continue to fall behind while other upcoming countries continue to rise.
a perfect example is gerrard; brilliant player in his prime, had all the attributes for top class box to box English CM, yet never really performed at international level. imo because he like pretty much most English players doesn't have the ability to run past players, play quick 1-2s.
you don't need pace to be able to get away from defenders i.e. Xavi/cesc.
if players from a younger age were encouraged to play a more expansive style of football as well as contributing towards their physical attributes then I think progress will be made. and tbf signs of this are there now, i.e. wilshere, lallana, Ox, sterling, barkley, only problem is tactics and mentality used by the management and coaches doesn't play to their strengths.

06 Jul 2014 02:06:24
dg. tut tut I would have thought you of all people would have been aware that AFC commands a fan base far and beyond the shores of england.if premier league clubs start concerning themselves with team england then it is goodnight to competitive european football.it is the responsibility of the F.A. to sort team england out,not with draconian measures,but by spending money/time/coaching,it might be worth considering,that english/british youth have become fat bloated,lazy,wee so and so,s that at the age of 20 think they have made it!,think of D Bentley for an example,i just hope jack hasn't caught the virus,but I am starting to wonder?

06 Jul 2014 01:34:07
Not my national team!
England can stay useless in my books :P

(I'm banned now aren't I.)

{Ed007's Note - More like Post of the Day.}

06 Jul 2014 02:43:54
Dgm hit the nail on the head for me. i'd be quite annoyed if I woke up and saw we had signed Llalalalalalno For 25m

06 Jul 2014 08:24:15
Good replies Gents.

The word.
I agree about the fanbase mate.

Banbury.
I know we have a large English contingent but was talking English football in general.

Waq.
Good reply.

DAGS

Waq's reply was spot on, for me it is down to the coaching mate, Costa Rico were fielding a player who played in the Mexican 2nd division, we would never dream of getting someone from our 2nd division. Chile had players from our championship, we aren't short of talent we just can't get set up to win matches, we also think we have a good given right to win, I think there is a certain arrogance about us

{Ed025's Note - fair points them BG mate..

06 Jul 2014 09:41:22
That is a fair point mate.

The reason I ask is because I have been appointed by the English FA to try to solve the abysmal state of English Football.

My official title is FA S**t-kicker so I have to justify my £750,000 annual wage.

Now, where did I put my sunglasses?

This will not go down well but it would unite club and country towards wanting success at international level.
The amount of Champions league places should be granted on international performances in world cup and Euro champs .
4 places for SF counties EC and top 4 in WC.
3 places for QF
And two for qualifying teams
1 for countries that don't make the finals.
Making club and country interdependent, I don't expect this to be popular but it would work imo

06 Jul 2014 11:43:52
I think it's got to do with the fact that the FA and the coaches can't seem to shake the mentality that one 'superstar' player in the squad will instantly make us a team. Whenever a young player shows the smallest sign of potential, he's immediately called up to the first team. Huge mistake in my opinion.

Look at Spain. The most recent generation of Spanish players played TOGETHER at every international youth level before being called up to the senior squad, and they won a smeg tonne. And then in the first team they won even more! A lot of the players in that side are world class, but you can only get that good when you've been playing together for such a long time in a international role. Proof that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

England need to do that instead of throwing a team together of players who have spent most of the year playing against each other, without ever playing together at a younger age. England just have the wrong philosophy altogether.

Dags, I think you need to reverse the question: why aren't more foreign clubs signing young English players? Why don't more English players play abroad? All the top teams left have a major overseas playing base. If I were starting out and was serious, I'd be trying to get into the German, Dutch or Belgian league youth teams. Arsene is right, we shouldn't look at passports, but we should have English options abroad -:)

FA and the FL need to merge IMHO to fix problems at home.

England are over rated and the players are what English player would get in the top teams in the Spanish German league none for me

06 Jul 2014 14:18:46
Big problem with you lot is you love going for flavour of the month players. Whether it's an Andy Carroll or a Lambert or even Barkley (Who I rate highly) or Walcott back in the day. the point is you never keep a core nucleus of players for the two years it takes to qualify for the competition and play it out.

You seem to chop and change every round of friendlies for any given player who scored a couple of goals that month for whatever team. It's ridiculous. How can you expect to develop a team and a particular style of football. If you have 3 new players every two months.

I know you have to give lads a try etc. but you dramatically chop and change game by game if there's a few boys doing better than expected for Stoke or Wigan and go to the competition 1) With a considerable chunk of the team who've only played twice/three times together over the last few years and 2) Never recognizing that you're a third rate side.

Potential is there for Euro 2016 and WC 2018. But only if you decide on your core talent now. Time for the old boys to step aside and stick with a particular set of players for the vast majority.

No matter if Barkley or whoever is doing bad Everton the last couple of months. He's in the national squad for the job he does for the national squad not for Everton.

Or better yet don't! :P

06 Jul 2014 16:28:27
Sheeny,

You make a fair point, totally agree.

06 Jul 2014 23:43:23
Just hope Hodgson wasn't reading dags!

05 Jul 2014 18:12:33
Ed,

I have heard Alexis Sanchez will not be used as part-ex in Suarez deal, cash only.

Do you know if this is true?

Thanks.

{Ed027's Note - it has been well documented

It will be straight cash Dags as Barca have dropped their interest in Sanogo and we've refused to part with Arteta and Monreal so straight cash is the only way left open

05 Jul 2014 19:46:12
I heard Liverpool have baulked on a £64m cash deal with Barca and are looking for a straight swap deal with QPR's Loic Remy.

All hinges on whether Suarez bites.

05 Jul 2014 20:38:31
Lol,

Thanks Gents, I think.

05 Jul 2014 16:59:09
ed will the sanchez saga be concluded within a week?

{Ed027's Note - I'd think so

05 Jul 2014 16:07:54
So mathieu debuchy has put on Instagram 'goodbye Brazil hello Arsenal' now if we don't sign him then what the hell are we doing lol good signing in my opinion, perfect replacement for sagna. Now let's go get Sanchez and Khedira :)

05 Jul 2014 18:03:41
Agree.
A good signing who is accustomed to the Prem League.

Despite what people think, he is decent going forward.

Sanchez would be amazing, as would Khedira, but I would be happy with 'Spyder', a very good DM.

Still waiting for Remy signing So I can show off my 'Remy' shirt and matching boxers.

Dags if you have Remy pants then a Nicklas Bendtnet style pants fine is on its way to you

05 Jul 2014 19:19:27
Rocky,

The words 'Nicholas Bendtner' and 'pants' are used very frequently in sentences, lol.

05 Jul 2014 19:53:09
I think if remy signs Dags should be made an Ed.

with Ed002's blessing of course.

05 Jul 2014 20:43:17
Sheeny, mate totally agree.

Dags, Special Guest Ed.

Got a ring to it, lol.

{Ed025's Note - its either you..or oscar pistorius dags...im voting for oscar..

If we don't sign Remy Wenger had better watch out Dags could do a Pistorious!!

{Ed025's Note - ..dags....the blade gunner..

05 Jul 2014 21:45:41
ED,

That is, without doubt, the best comeback I have heard on this site.

Total respect to you Sir.

05 Jul 2014 13:41:18
So the rumors are that a deal has been agreed for Suarez for £63 million. Apparently Sanchez is playing a key part in the deal but if that is the cash price then I find Sanchez going to Liverpool highly unlikely. That would bring Suarez's accumulative value in the deal to around £90 million.

If this was the case then that would be one horrific piece of business on Barcelona's part, as they'd be taking a big enough risk as it is paying £63 million for a player, world class he may be, who could potentially end up as a free agent and money wasted if another incident like that occurs.

Looks like Sanchez could be as good as ours.

Let's hope so, I think if he chooses the PL he's ours to lose but that's still a big if at the moment.

05 Jul 2014 17:57:59
I don't see why he wouldn't, he knows his style is perfect for the PL and Juventus may be a class team, but I'm not convinced that a player of his age and quality could find playing in Italy very fulfilling.

06 Jul 2014 01:42:20
I agree Chan about Italy. Such a poor league nowadays.
Pity when you think it was the original premiership so to speak.
Home to all the greats.
Match fixing has tarnished the Italian game for a long time to come.

05 Jul 2014 12:42:08
1404, I posted this before but didn't get much response.
You say benzema is as good a striker as any in the EPL, then how come his stats are so similar to girouds for last season. And he for now is at a better club then ours, that create much more chances.
So how is he just as good as Suarez, rvp, Sturridge etc yet giroud isn't?
Only asking this is because I don't understand all this hype around benzema, no way is he top class, or fast or a great finisher, he's just good IMO, and doesn't add much more then what giroud does.

He was injured for a large chunk of last season. Benzema is a class above Giroud. He will at least make runs in behind the defense and his finishing ability is much better than Girouds. Giroud has decent hold up and team play but he does not have that cutting edge.

He still managed to play the same amount of games as giroud, scored the same amount. and I watch a lot of real Madrid matches, n his finishing is not that good at all, his movement is good, but he rarely runs in behind the defence, he prefers the ball at his feet.
like I said before, I think he is better then giroud but only by a small amount.

06 Jul 2014 01:50:44
Benzema is and has always been over rated.
He's not the best at anything and has never been. (though he is a very good finisher)
35 games in La Liga last year 17 goals, when you consider Madrid scored 104 goals last season that's not a great return
30 games 11 goals the year before.
The year before that he scored 21 in 34. the only time he broke twenty in the league.
When you consider goals are much easier to come by at Madrid (Score nearly a 100 every season) he's only running about average.

{Ed007's Note - He's similar to RVP in that both have a poor scoring over the long term with a couple of decent seasons here and there. Yet Arsenal fans loved RVP. It could be worse, you could have signed Rickie Lambert!}

06 Jul 2014 14:25:29
Haha fair point Ed007, but in regards to RVP he was injured for 5 seasons the only 18 months he went without injury for Arsenal he showed his true talent. Then did it again for Utd the following season. And last season he was back to being injured a lot.

Benzema dosen't have that excuse. He's just not good enough

{Ed007's Note - Yeah, let's go with the RvP 'injury' fairytale from last season, at least Benzema is not injury prone :)

05 Jul 2014 11:08:59
I really think the Khedira transfer might be picking up pace now. Although I don't think anything will happen until after the World Cup the transfer makes complete sense

If Ozil does not find the form he showed at Madrid next year it could be seen as one of Wenger's biggest failures. After breaking habit and spending our club record fee it could leave Wenger with egg on his face. That being said the Khedira transfer would be ideal because he is one of the best players in the world in the position he plays (one which we seriously need to improve) and being a close friend of Ozil's it could help him through a difficult spell.

I do think we will cash in on Campbell as much as it pains me to say. IF the Sanchez rumours are true then it would mean recouping a serious chunk of the Sanchez fee.

With Debuchy almost in the bag and the possibility of Khedira and Sanchez fee this is going to be the most exciting Season in a long while!

10 months ago Mesut Ozil was class on grass and that true ability hasn't suddenly just vanished in a few months.
The German fans have tried booing him and that hasn't worked, can't think why they ever thought it might help him or them in the first place.
If Arsene adds some players that compliment him and Aaron stays fit plus get Theo back I think we will see a return to form of this very top class player.
We must get behind him 100% this season and not make the same mistake his countrymen did

I can't believe the amount of criticism and lack of faith in Ozil . This is a player EVERY major club would take into their team without question . Yes, he hasn't shown what he is capable of and yes he looks lazy on the field, but I think he is having to adapt his style into a more restrictive role with Germany due to tactics. As for us, I think he needs to be allowed to roam and play with more freedom. I read a book about Mourinho while ago and in it was a paragraph about how highly rated he was between the Madrid players. In the book it was explained that ozil had the most defensive duties and roles in the team due to Mourinho's obsession with defensive tactics. For me, I think the time spent under Mourinho changed his style to some extent. Just my opinion, but I think we expect too much from him at times, maybe because we want him to be our next Henry .

05 Jul 2014 09:14:58
Why does it seem that the Arsenal transfer activity policy is shambolic. There are world cup stars available that would definately improve our on the feild performace and we cannot convert any deal in a rational way. The management team seems inept with their low bidding approach and way out of date with their dealings. We need a management team that wants to win. I feel that the managers laid back approach has affected the whole club to the detriment of the fans and Arsenal will to win.

05 Jul 2014 14:13:18
I think Le grove picked up on it first, a lot of people on here have too now.

We won't sign anyone till after the kit reveal mate.

Imagine you're a puma CEO and you just paid out for this massive sponsorship deal, to promote your brand and next thing you see, is arsenals new summer signings in Nike tops.

Wouldn't be happy!

05 Jul 2014 00:36:39
Another poor performance from ozil we need to keep carzola if ozil carries on playing like this I'm worried

05 Jul 2014 01:28:35
I really like Ozil but he seems to be playing with no confidence at all, every pass, cross,shot or tackle is half hearted.
Not the player I enjoyed watching at Madrid.

Why are you worried? He's being stuck out on the left with no cover I.e. Full backs over lapping not much he can do with the lack of pace in this German team.
What's making this German team successful is the movement off the ball, great organisation n good incisive passing including by ozil, which is all going unnoticed because of the lack of flair.
Kroos and Goetze haven't had the best of world cups, don't think their or interested clubs are worried, same for Ronaldo.

He hasn't had a great World Cup but even Germany are lacking something that Arsenal lack that Madrid had. A world class striker. Ozil is a creator. With all due respect to him Klose is past it. He's still a good poacher/ fox in the box but he's not going to make defence splitting runs like Benzema at Madrid. Plus it's a bit more regimented at Germany so there's defensive responsibility and it doesn't take a genius yo see Ozil ain't no defender.
Club and country are always the opposite ends of the spectrum. Us england fans should be well aware of that.

Its been a tough year for him mentally he's been booed by the German fans lots of times and criticised by many, this wouldn't do anyone's confidence much good.
He needs to a mental cuddle

05 Jul 2014 09:59:46
I don't know about the op but I wasn't just talking about the World Cup.